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31 Votes

I A-M HoT PRC Chaos [In-Depth Guide]

August 28, 2014 by Hi-Breed
Comments: 40    |    Views: 122642    |   


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Hi-Breed (3) | February 11, 2015 6:55pm

Dear Hi-Breed,
First and foremost let me thank you very much for you�re in depth and helpful guide, it has not only show me how to properly play and understand the hero but has made me fall in love with chaos Knight. My favorite is when Lina or Lion rage quit after ulting an allusion. Following the creative thinking and theory crafting has help me really dial in what makes this hero tick the most.

On to my questions, I have come across several areas in the game where I find that the guide doesn't properly inform me how to deal with certain situations and how to cope with certain heroes who you know are going to be a problem.

1. Axe- Trust me when I say I do not try to focus on him but he MAKES me focus him, and if I accidentally get paired against an axe during a game what item should I build throughout the game to help cope with this very annoying hero or what strategies would you suggest using? This character is one of the top picks in the current meta and he always jumps right on top of me and my illusions in the middle of a team fight and before I know it all of my illusions are gone and I�m at half health.

2. Medusa- My biggest problem with Medusa is her ultimate. In the several games I have unfortunately had to go against her I am completely shut down in team fights. In most matches everything is going fine until late game when she gets a BKB and at that point I cannot figure out solid way of overcoming her, my 4k health illusions melt away in mere seconds every time she uses her ult. I get a halberd to try to counter this character but it's not as effective as I would hope.

3. Faceless Void- Late game he bubbles me before I can hide in my illusions or will bubble after a couple seconds of a team fight after my illusions heath revealed me. Farming a MKB to deal with him is challenging because it brings the farm cap up so high. In late game fights how do you handle FV?

4. During the landing phase I will often have to not farm because the enemy harassment is too strong. Lane switching is not an option either so do you go jungle in the woods or do you just stick it out and get the experience but no gold? What steps do you take in public matchmaking solo to ensure that you will still have a successful game even if your team is uncooperative?

Thanks,
Uncle Bad Touch


Well, hi there, Uncle Bad Touch,

I have to ask for forgiveness as my guide is not up to date, mainly "thanks" to changes in Diffusal Blade and Reality Rift; rest assured the guide is conservative with respect to those two main changes.

To cut it short, the Diffusal Blade 'nerf' actually makes its level 1 option better and the level 2 one (I'd say) worse than the 'old' corresponding Diffusal Blades, while the Reality Rift 'improvement' (mana cost is 50 instead of 70) will allow for more 'courageous' takes on lane enemies (SPOILER ALERT: Stout Shield and/or Clarityes from spawn).

Coming back to your thanks, well, to cut them short, too: thanks! I've put a lot of effort into this guide and I'm happy I see the results on DotA 2 players that increase their Chaos Knight playstyle (partially) thanks to my guide.

Actually, the guide is (can you believe it?) NOT YET COMPLETE, as the 'foes' section is not yet... in-line with the guide.

Strictly regarding the foes section, I am really glad someone (YOU!) placed SO MANY QUESTIONS regarding the missing parts (foes); the answer to (most of) your problems it quite simple, so simple you won't even believe it: get a Blade Mail! It's even in the guide! I've praised it sooo sooo much that if I show you a piece of paper with (any form of kited-a-lot, suffering) Chaos Knight drawn on it you should instantly yell " Blade Mail!" (mid to lategame, earlier is kinda hard).

The other tricky part of countering those heroes is (trickier, yes) 'four'fold: Black King Bar, Skull Basher (can you believe it?!?...), TEAMPLAY and actually waiting/retreating for a couple of seconds. Now let's take'em one by one:

0. Lina and Lion

My favorite is when Lina or Lion rage quit after ulting an illusion.

Actually, Lina and Lion are quite hard to lane against: Lina has her Light Strike Array which stuns AND reveals the real Chaos Knight as the one that takes less damage among his mirror images, so now Laguna Blade knows its target; furthermore Lion is THE support counter to Chaos Knight as ALL his spells HURT Chaos Knight: Earth Spike is pretty much a 'linear' Light Strike Array, Hex reveals the real Chaos Knight as the one mirror image that did not vanished upon cast, Mana Drain gets Chaos Knight out of mana rather fast during laning and actually if Lion gets an Aghanim's Scepter he can AOE-ulti (all of) you(r mirror images)!
Ulti-ing an illusion for 1000+ damage happened to me, too! ^^ But again, Lina and Lion are hard counters to Chaos Knight early game in laning and good support players can make Chaos Knight's laning life a hell.

1. Axe

Axe- Trust me when I say I do not try to focus on him but he MAKES me focus him, and if I accidentally get paired against an axe during a game what item should I build throughout the game to help cope with this very annoying hero or what strategies would you suggest using? This character is one of the top picks in the current meta and he always jumps right on top of me and my illusions in the middle of a team fight and before I know it all of my illusions are gone and I�m at half health.

Axe easily counters almost any hero as his core doesn't need to reach further than Vanguard/ Blade Mail plus Blink Dagger; indeed his most feared skills are the Berserker's Call + Counter Helix combo that 'Blink'-placed to perfection in the middle of your mirror images instantly cripples them.
The thing to buy as Chaos Knight against Axe is DEFINITELY a Blade Mail as the 4.5 seconds should be more than enough to KILL the Mogul Khan; just pinch ( Chaos Bolt or a ranged team mate attack]]) him before such as he will be unable to blink away to safety. For more CK mana, go for Chaos Bolt + Blade Mail on + Reality Rift and bulge his skull hard!
Blade Mail returns ANY ( Counter Helix included) damage to the 'caster' as PURE damage! Yes, PURE damage that ignores your +40000000000000 bonus Berserker's Call ARMOR. Obviously it's best to activate yours before he pops his... The bad thing is your illusion die like flies to his call, so try to avoid/chainstun/ethereal/silence him when your illusions are up: he's better off left for 1 vs 1 against Blade Mail or ranged DPS-ers or against nukers; your (supporting) mates can also use Force Staff/ Eul's Scepter of Divinity/ Duel on him while Scythe of Vyse comes second (and not that great against a piggy that can Counter Helix, actually). Drow Ranger's Silence is actually my favorite against Axe but I can cope with some Ethereal/ Orchid Malevolence + nukes galore, too. On lane, get more HP than him, pop your Blademail and that should do the trick.
Bottom line: don't let him get to you, (chain)stun/(chain)silence him, activate your Blade Mail then Reality Rift and get to him (finish him!) fast before your 'chain' breaks; attack him 1 vs 1 (avoid a 5-man Axe focus as that further increases his Counter Helix to a perma-swipe AOE), nuke him or attack him from a distance. Silence skills/ Orchid Malevolence comes in handy. Black King Bar is obsolete, as Axe's call ignores it. Ohhh, actually Berserker's Call 'ignores' Linken's Sphere, too and can not be purged.

2. Medusa

Medusa- My biggest problem with Medusa is her ultimate. In the several games I have unfortunately had to go against her I am completely shut down in team fights. In most matches everything is going fine until late game when she gets a BKB and at that point I cannot figure out solid way of overcoming her, my 4k health illusions melt away in mere seconds every time she uses her ult. I get a halberd to try to counter this character but it's not as effective as I would hope.

Well, Medusa IS a carry hard-counter to Chaos Knight while Outworld Devourer lacks in tankiness but still threatens CK's illusions hard.
Coming back to Medusa: it's the same (chain)disable/(chain)silence technique on her a** or simply walk away; she's also a tough nut to crack in laning, too (similar with Lion: all her skills are ' Chaos Knight-unfriendly').
Medusa's ulti 'recovers' faster than Phantasm and it actually destroys in a snap illusions that are facing her, so yeah, I feel your grief. And I'm afraid I don't know an ITEM counter to her (aside disables/Orchid and probably Eul's Scepter of Divinity: what is defined as her "front" while she circles through the air? Please someone confirm/infirm this.), only heroes, among Naga Siren shines: Medusa ulti, enemy Naga Siren ulti and that's it. Others include (but are not limited to, lol): Omniknight, Magnus, Treant Protector, Invoker, Sillencer and the father-of-all, Faceless Void.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand yes,
3. Faceless Void

3. Faceless Void- Late game he bubbles me before I can hide in my illusions or will bubble after a couple seconds of a team fight after my illusions heath revealed me. Farming a MKB to deal with him is challenging because it brings the farm cap up so high. In late game fights how do you handle FV?

There are more (easy) solutions to this:
1. Maaaan, this pr!ck really pisses me off with his 0.35 cast animation! But the moment you hear/see any sight of his Time Walk, activate your Blade Mail instantly! Then try to throw in your Chaos Bolt, although your cast animation is 0.4. Blade Mail is sooo good on him because he almost never gets a Black King Bar. ;)
(Chain)stunning/(chain)silencing also works, for the sleight of hand.
In case you net a good Blade Mail, his HP are far less than yours and furthermore with his Mask of Madness on, he'll 2-shot himself.
2. Grab a Ghost Scepter/ Ethereal Blade and use it on yourself; for maximum efficiency, after you upgrade it to Ethereal Blade, use it on an ally the instant you hear Faceless Void swooosh-ing in: this will save two a**es, yours and your mate's.
3. Get Eul's on supports and keep one of them behind, just in case things get ugly.


4. During the landing phase I will often have to not farm because the enemy harassment is too strong. Lane switching is not an option either so do you go jungle in the woods or do you just stick it out and get the experience but no gold? What steps do you take in public matchmaking solo to ensure that you will still have a successful game even if your team is uncooperative?

Tough luck, Ace: you can't farm your jungle 24/7 until mid-game, as CK has no flash-farming mechanism, being better off at 'farming heroes'; maybe braver CKs will get a Stout Shield and go CPJ (Choke Point Jungling), so I'd recommend you STAY PUT ON YOUR LANE at least UNTIL level 6, preferably 7. You get 1 gold for 0.6 seconds of staying alive and in 10 minutes that amounts to 1000 gold, which can hep you get a pair of Boots of Speed, assemble your Null Talisman maybe and get some Magic Stick/ Stout Shield in the process.
The thing is, at level 6/7 you should get the two enemy kills on your lane with the help of a well-chosen lane support and make up for some hundreds (almost 1K) gold.

P.S. 1: The last builds from my guide try to cover the 'uncovered' threats that [link=http://www.dotafire.com/profile/peppo-opaccio-12146]Peppo_oPaccio[/link] and you pointed out - you'll notice items like Orchid Malevolence, Ghost Scepter and Skull Basher that might make you say 'wtf have these items to do with a carry Chaos Knight?!?' - but now you (hopefully) know better that every game is situational.

P.S. 2: A funny thing, though; in my 'early years' of Chaos Knight, I used to pick him against anyone and I recently viewed a game from that era that depicts me crushing skulls of heavy AOE casters/cleavers and now I was like 'WAAAT?!? How can I kick a** like that while my guide says <<no casters/cleavers, please!>>?' so I guess courage, game knowledge and good team communication can go a looong way; remember DotA 2 is situational and you should adapt your playstyle accordingly. Remember something else: carries are CAPTAINS and it's your job to encourage and organize your team. Sometimes, 2-3 tanks with cheap-a** Blade Mails it's all it takes to turn around a game; always remember that items like Blade Mail and Monkey King Bar are items that can change the outcome of a clash AND GAME and it's really a shame not seeing them more often (at least) as 'suggested items' in guides, but hopefully other will get it (the importance of Blade Mail - true, not against Black King Bar/Repel heroes).


Have fun and leave some feedback after testing those above,

Hi-Breed
1
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UncleBadTouch | February 10, 2015 9:45pm
Dear Hi-Breed,
First and foremost let me thank you very much for you’re in depth and helpful guide, it has not only show me how to properly play and understand the hero but has made me fall in love with chaos Knight. My favorite is when Lina or Lion rage quit after ulting an allusion. Following the creative thinking and theory crafting has help me really dial in what makes this hero tick the most.

On to my questions, I have come across several areas in the game where I find that the guide doesn't properly inform me how to deal with certain situations and how to cope with certain heroes who you know are going to be a problem.

1. Axe- Trust me when I say I do not try to focus on him but he MAKES me focus him, and if I accidentally get paired against an axe during a game what item should I build throughout the game to help cope with this very annoying hero or what strategies would you suggest using? This character is one of the top picks in the current meta and he always jumps right on top of me and my illusions in the middle of a team fight and before I know it all of my illusions are gone and I’m at half health.

2. Medusa- My biggest problem with Medusa is her ultimate. In the several games I have unfortunately had to go against her I am completely shut down in team fights. In most matches everything is going fine until late game when she gets a BKB and at that point I cannot figure out solid way of overcoming her, my 4k health illusions melt away in mere seconds every time she uses her ult. I get a halberd to try to counter this character but it's not as effective as I would hope.

3. Faceless Void- Late game he bubbles me before I can hide in my illusions or will bubble after a couple seconds of a team fight after my illusions heath revealed me. Farming a MKB to deal with him is challenging because it brings the farm cap up so high. In late game fights how do you handle FV?

4. During the landing phase I will often have to not farm because the enemy harassment is too strong. Lane switching is not an option either so do you go jungle in the woods or do you just stick it out and get the experience but no gold? What steps do you take in public matchmaking solo to ensure that you will still have a successful game even if your team is uncooperative?

Thanks,
Uncle Bad Touch
1
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Hi-Breed (3) | December 15, 2014 11:15am
Squidzzy wrote:

I thought that Vlad's lifesteal doesn't work on CK's illusions:

"Satanic gives Strength and armor, which increases durability. Its active ability allows Chaos Knight to stay in the fight much longer. Note that illusions don't lifesteal." (from Recommended Items section on Gamepedia wiki for CK).

What to build in this case?


It doesn't. Vladmir's Offering is a great upgrade to lifesteal because it affects your TEAM MATES; now what do I need lifesteal for? I need lifesteal because it it a cheap way of staying alive more. Sure, you can think "But Armlet of Mordiggian gives HP/s regen! Yes, but at around level 16 CK has ~2000 HP. Say 10 HP/s (of AoM and any other HP/s regen coming from STR alone) out of 2000 HP is 0,5% while with lifesteal you'd be around 40-50 'HP/s regen equivalence'. Think HoT gives 2% HP/s. 2% out of 2000 HP is - you know it - 40 HP/s so you basically have your HoT (regen) BEFORE actually buying a HoT. ;) You just need to HIT.

And the illusions really don't benefit from lifesteal, but will DISPLAY the effect (of lifestealing).

Vladi gives many more: a lot of auras: bonus damage, armor, mana regen... for a cheap price. And Morbid Mask sells for 900 gold so you can buy it BEFORE Armlet of Mordiggian without any trouble and you have your HP/s regen equivalence waaay before AoM.

What to build? Go for Morbid Mask to Valdi or HotD, it's a sure shot.

Squidzzy wrote:

Also see this:

"Please notice that illusions do not benefit from Assault Cuirass at all, as illusions cannot use raw armor, nor raw attack speed. Only their damage output will increase a bit cause of negative armor debuff on enemies."


Yes, but I also talked about ARMOR at the lifesteal discussion in the guide: remember lategame is about % increases and ARMOR. +15 ARMOR is just GREAT and again that's to all your team mates around you.

Your both questions needs to be addressed somehow simultaneously... As you can see, Vladi gives ARMOR and AC also gives ARMOR, but Vladi is midgame and AC is definitely LATEGAME. The thing is, you'd want AC after midgame items like AoM, Manta Style, Vladi and 95% after Heart of Tarrasque. Both Vladi and AC ar for giving a hand to the team, too, while a more selfish choice would be a Butterfly after AoM, Manta and HoT.

Talk to you soon, I need to exit now.


Hi-Breed
1
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Squidzzy | December 14, 2014 10:19am
I thought that Vlad's lifesteal doesn't work on CK's illusions:

"Satanic gives Strength and armor, which increases durability. Its active ability allows Chaos Knight to stay in the fight much longer. Note that illusions don't lifesteal." (from Recommended Items section on Gamepedia wiki for CK).

What to build in this case?

Also see this:

"Please notice that illusions do not benefit from Assault Cuirass at all, as illusions cannot use raw armor, nor raw attack speed. Only their damage output will increase a bit cause of negative armor debuff on enemies."
1
[-]
Hi-Breed (3) | November 26, 2014 3:25am

Hey,

Sorry about the delayed replay, but I just started (three weeks ago) being very, very busy: I have to work for 50 hours a week, go to school for 12-20 hours more, loose about 10-15 hours more on traffic and here's my working week...

I already responed a couple of days after your post (to your post), but it seems dotafire didn't 'received' my answer, so I'll say it 'again' in a more quicker way:

Zrog wrote:

Mek drops off rapidly, and is merely a stepping-stone to better items after tower and hero kills. The earlier you get a Mek, the more effective the AOE-heal is. We're not talking about sustained heal-over-time for pushing, but the massive we-almost-killed-them-oh-wait-we-didn't fight-reset type of early heal.


100% true; but don't buy a Mekansm on Chaos Knight: you'd be better off with an Urn of Shadows, but only for yourself: don't jump on me (yet) - Chaos Knight can take on (almost) any hero 1 vs. 1 and here is where the +6 STR (=+114 HP), 150 (Pure!) Nuke or around 100 (to max -200) heal AFTER you Chaos Bolt the enemy and the 50% Mana Regen are quite worth the price and CHEAP item assembly ( Mekansm has a 900 gold price tag recipe that it's already costlyer than the full urn!

Or get the Morbid Mask to recover HP; you will recover more than 250 HP over 40 secons, trust me.

Yes, Mekansm also has +5 STR (and +5 AGI, +5 INT), but its +5 Armor is actually the sought after item on Chaos Knight; but wait, did you opted for the Morbid Mask? Upgrade it to Vladmir's Offering/ Helm of the Dominator and there's your CHEAPER Armor buff together with many more: +DMG, +HP/s regen and in case Vladi is your item of choice, oooooh, many, many more!

Zrog wrote:

NEW IDEA: try doing the math on a Crystalis as a second or third item for Chaos Knight, and let me know what you think: works with illusions, adds quite significant damage...


Great idea: I already said that Daedalus outputs the damage coming from Chaos Knight AND Phantasm combined - 35% to (around) 30.something% - but the idea is you kinda spend some $$$ on it, too...

A 'smaller' Crystalys gives great bang for the buck, too, as it has a 20% chance of critting for 175%, which 'kinda bests' his 4-th level Chaos Strike chance of 10% critting for 300%, so it can DEFINITELY be a BUY (but AFTER Armlet of Mordiggian: AoM increases his DPS from around 100 to 156 - say +56% - and if you get Crystalys before AoM, Crystalys will give +15% but for 131 DMG which is roughly 150 DMG (and no HP nor AS increase), so you can skip his Chaos Strike to put points in STATS if you consider getting a Crystalys later.

This is the exact strategy I'm using on Juggernaut for around a year: skipping Blade Dance for STATS and choosing Crystalys instead of Drum of Endurance - but on some heroes is better than others: for Juggernaut, a Daedalus is more efficient than a level 4 Blade Dance starting 600 DMG or so, while for Chaos Knight the Daedalus is better than a level 4 Chaos Strike starting ~900 DMG (I did the math once, I'll come back to that pretty soon, I hope).

Zrog wrote:

PS - I've been using the Dota 2 Hero Calculator a lot to figure out various math...


Had no idea this even exists X_X, but I salute it and I will check it for sure. <3

P.S.: I recently played a game and went 'straight' to BKB against 2 or 3 (AoE) nukers just to find out it's kinda useless... and Blademail + Yasha to Manta Style and Heart of Tarrasque solved it in lategame.

The point is, Chaos Knight plays GREAT with illusions, so try to emphasize that (more).

Hope to hear soon(er than I replied) from you,


Hi-Breed,
1
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Zrog (1) | November 10, 2014 9:43am
Hi-Breed,

I think you missed the point about my Mekanism post. Yes, it's not "optimal" for Chaos Knight to get Mek FOR HIMSELF (but it's not bad). However, during the "push meta" of 6.81, you'd see a lot of carries (mid-laners too) get an early Mek to get a massive advantage during teamfights or skirmishes - the tower push thereafter is cake, and NOT why the Mekanism is purchased.

The Null Talisman is so cheap that it could probably be ADDED to the Mek purchase, since most of the components are purchased with starting gold.

You'd be relying on a position-4 support to buy the Mekanism, which would mean a much later Mek, which isn't the idea - Mek drops off rapidly, and is merely a stepping-stone to better items after tower and hero kills. The earlier you get a Mek, the more effective the AOE-heal is. We're not talking about sustained heal-over-time for pushing, but the massive we-almost-killed-them-oh-wait-we-didn't fight-reset type of early heal. Arcane Boots would probably be better on your supports, anyway (which would also give you enough mana to use the Mek!)

NEW IDEA: try doing the math on a Crystalis as a second or third item for Chaos Knight, and let me know what you think: works with illusions, adds quite significant damage...

PS - I've been using the Dota 2 Hero Calculator a lot to figure out various math...

Zrog
1
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Hi-Breed (3) | September 1, 2014 12:21am

BrecMadak wrote:

Great great guide Hi-Breed, love your enthusiasm and passion you put into this guide. Terribly impeccable, all your efforts to keep this guide up-to date grants you +vote, mind you.


Thank you; unfortunately, this guide is NOT YET COMPLETE (nor up-to date :'( ): there is a big MINUS at the 'FOES' section and I still did not update the 50% chance of Phantasm to create an additional mirror image, to name a few.

I skimmed about a third of the guide (for a couple of hours, lol) and also noticed some minor typos; hopefully I'll get myself together and repair this asap.

I also want to add some tips&tricks about both Chaos Knight items and skill and their interaction. I promise I will and I hope I'll do it pretty soon. I also have some videos to add! ^^

BrecMadak wrote:

And if only you could simplify the guide overall without dumbing down the quality and details, just to raise its readability a little more, then it would be perfect !


As one could see from the 'CHANGELOG' chapter, I saw that coming since this January (splitting the guide in 'Simple', 'Advanced' and 'BKB'), but unfortunately the lack of spare time made that impossible. Indeed, there is a lot of information here and I'll try to synthesize that into three main ('Simple', 'Advanced', 'BKB') chapters again, asap.

As you can see, I made an 'effort' and 'synthesized' the guide into a 'Brief' that I find a biiit small to be a 'Simple' chapter on it's own, as it lacks some explanations: it's more an overview of the entire guide (I wanted to keep it under 5000 characters that still makes it a 'Brief'; these three chapters will appear at some point in time).

Thanks for your kind words and upvote and rest assured I'll kep you posted. ;)


Hi-Breed
1
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BrecMadak | August 29, 2014 2:15am
Great great guide Hi-Breed, love your enthusiasm and passion you put into this guide. Terribly impeccable, all your efforts to keep this guide up-to date grants you +vote, mind you.

And if only you could simplify the guide overall without dumbing down the quality and details, just to raise its readability a little more, then it would be perfect !
1
[-]
Hi-Breed (3) | August 28, 2014 9:08am

SuperSnake wrote:

You said it: in-depth. I think that pretty much sums it up. This is really good +1


Tigerre wrote:

This is what I want my Nature's Prophet guide to be like, HUGEMONGOUSLYMASSIVE!

+1

Detailed, nice, fulfilling for a lot of players, great guide overall, GRWAT JOB!


Thanks for the nice thought, guys and sorry for the delayed feed-back from my part.

In my (humble) opinion, guides don't have to be HUGEMONGOUSLYMASSIVE, just good.

For instance, both of these are not just good, but great:

http://www.dotafire.com/dota-2/guide/nessaj-the-chaos-bringer-1061

http://www.dotafire.com/dota-2/guide/a-wall-of-text-guide-to-chaos-knight-3431

I just had to argue about the necessity of Drum of Endurance and the lack of Manta Style as core.

Added a better (imo) replacement for Drums of Endurance (and 75% cheaper - Null Talisman), the pushfarming principle (with lifesteal), some here and there build twerking, cracking skulls since level 6, basic 'ALWAYS CARRY A TP, NOOB!' stuff, 11 or so item builds and that's pretty much it... xD

Thank you!


Hi-Breed
1
[-]
Tigerre (4) | August 19, 2014 2:47am
This is what I want my Nature's Prophet guide to be like, HUGEMONGOUSLYMASSIVE!

+1

Detailed, nice, fulfilling for a lot of players, great guide overall, GRWAT JOB!
1
[-]
SuperSnake | August 18, 2014 1:00pm
You said it: in-depth. I think that pretty much sums it up. This is really good +1
1
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Hi-Breed (3) | July 5, 2014 6:04am


Hey, pal!

Zrog wrote:

Not sure if Hi-Breed is still checking this, or even playing Dota, but...


I'm still playing... I still am.

Now to address your main question:

Zrog wrote:

What do you think of getting an early Mekanism on Chaos Knight? He gets stats, which he needs. He gets pushing power and regen.


Wow, Mekansm hit me in the scruff of my neck, and it did hit me HARD.

You have a point here and I'd say after the Vanguard buff long looong time ago (halved the damage block on ranged heroes) Mekansm got to ex- Vanguard ranged carry-like heroes pretty fast (I'm thinking Viper is the best example here).

But at a first glance, I'd say Mekansm is not a good item on him, as he needs that gold for a pair of Power Treads and for his Armlet of Mordiggian.

Now giving it a little thought though, I think it really isn't that good at all on Chaos Knight and here's why (but let me quote you first, word for word):

Zrog wrote:

What do you think of getting an early Mekanism on Chaos Knight? He gets stats, which he needs. He gets pushing power and regen.

Add in the Armlet of Mordiggian, and he already has more HP regen to counter the Armlet drain (not to mention the heal active), and he gets faster recovery after ganks than with lifesteal.


First of all: STATS. Yes... and no. Yes, Chaos Knight definitely needs STATS and Inteligence is the most sought after STAT at least early game. Buuut... how many STATS do I get for fuNking 2300 gold? I'll tell you, not enough: 5 STR, 5 AGI and 5 INT.

You see, Mekansm on Chaos Knight (from the STATS point of view) is kind of useless.

I answered a preeeeeeetty similar question here. In short, why Drum of Endurance is not good on Chaos Knight; elaborating, Drum of Endurance is cheaper than Mekansm and gives 9-9-9 STATS, so Mekansm is far worse from this point of view.

Now-now, before jumping to hasty conclusions, Mekansm has TWO GREAT components: Restore and the HP/s regen AOE (or is the second the armor buff?).

I'll come back to the STATS part a bit later, by the way.

Talking about the Mekansm good parts now, yes, Mekansm is good: 250 HP restore in a 750 radius AOE that affects both friendly heroes and creeps, the +2 Armor boost in a 750 radius AOE for 25 seconds and the 24/7 4 HP/s 750 radius aura regen.

But having A LOT of that AOE means you should use it around your team mates and/or creeps...

Now let me ask you something: WWYSD? Standing for "What Will Your Supports Do"? Meaning if YOU do buy Mekansm, what will they buy?!?...

Now, if your only support is Omniknight, sure, Mekansm on him is quite redundant if you fight only at 150 second intervals to have his ulti off cooldown each fight. Hell yes, I always skip Mekansm on Omniknight and go for Arcane Boots into Aghanim's Scepter 95% of the time, so somebody else could buy Mekansm, but I don't think you're the best Mek wielder here.

Most other supports need to go 'Mek-supporting'.

As a side note, I had a Chaos Knight pusher build that had these items:

but as you can see, there was no Mekansm here, and I'll tell you why:

When 'they' said Chaos Knight is a pusher, 'they' were referring to him as popping his ultimate and taking down an enemy tower with friendly creeps around (or at least that's what I'm thinking). And he's damn good at this!

Buuut... Mekansm is quite 'not-that-good' here as mainly creeps and tower FOCUS one target and you basically need to heal an independent target each time they change focus, not all of your creeps at the same time. Or by quickly kill all the enemy creeps around, which can only be made by items/skills giving (pseudo)AOE capabilities such as Battle Fury, Manta Style or your ultimate, Phantasm.

'Sadly', Vladmir's Offering does a similar thing as Mekansm, only it boosts the Armor of friendly units by +5, (not by +2) and FOREVER (not for 25 seconds out of 45). Another thing is Vladmir's Offering has a half-of- Mekansm regen aura, too, healing for 2 HP/s (in a rather larger area: 900 compared to 750) and the MP/s aura regen of 0.8! Plus it does not cost any mana to use! And adding the topping on the cake: it has built-in LIFESTEAL and BONUS DAMAGE auras, too!

Relating that with the earlier cry for STATS, I have to tell you this: a Null Talisman gives more INT than Mekansm and it does not cost a thing in mana usage over time for a quarter of the Mekansm price; in order to get a kill on your lane, you definitely need +9 INT as you can see from the table below, that is extracted from the main guide somewhere around here:

The key to the PRC Chaos Knight build is to have at least the mana to cast a PRC/PRCR combo at level 6/7, which translates in buying early items for that extra INT boots. Finding low-cost appropriate items to avoid delaying his core is a must.
Level


6

7
STAT
INT


22

23.2
PRC
req. INT


25.8

25.8
INT boost
needed


4

3
PRCR
req. INT


31.2

31.2
INT boost
needed


10

8

So for a level 6 PRCR you officially need 10 extra INT. But considering that 0.2 INT needed to pull off the combo translates to 0.2*13=2.6 mana points, you can engage in your PRCR combo thanks to your internal mana regen which will help you recover that 2.6 mana points until you finish your combo, anyway.

Even for a level 6 PRCR there won't be any problems related to farming for INT items due to the starting build which can help you get a Null Talisman until your ulti is up without doing anything except staying alive on lane. Having that and the starting 3 Iron Branches, you just boosted your INT with +9, enough for your own PRCR inscrutable purposes.

So depending on the STAT you need, pick a Bracer, Wraith Band or Null Talisman, only Chaos Knight definitely needs early INT, therefore go for the Null Bracer.

Why? Here's why: Do you want to kill one or even both of your lane opponents at level 6? Have +9 INT until then.

Assuming 'rushing a Mekansm' means getting it immediately after your Boots of Speed, maybe getting a Magik Stick / Magic Wand in between, you won't have +9 INT at level 6 from either Headress, Buckler or even both! Even if you also have your Magic Wand! So no, Mekansm is not rushable immediately after your Boots of Speed. What if things go wrong on your lane and you farm sh!t until level 6? Well, you definitely HAVE NOTHING... But just by staying alive on lane you can DEFINITELY get the +9 INT required to pose a threat when you reach level 6 by completing your Null Talisman and having 3 starting Iron Branches.

Wanna put some points in STATS until level 6?... Please don't, as you need your ulti at level 6 and maxing Reality Rift asap. I don't think you'd rather have NO POINTS IN Chaos Bolt to have additional 4-4-4 STATS at level 6...

So, let's continue with Mekansm' importance on Chaos Knight after his Power Treads and before Morbid Mask (early lifesteal).

This one is pretty damn simple: 900 gold over 2300 gold it's a no-brainer, as Chaos Knight can leech lifesteal at a rate of roughly 450 HP/minute equivalence (check this out) and furthermore synergises with both the current stage of the game (you're pushfarming now after kills) and with the later Armlet of Mordiggian.

I'll extract the synergy with these two and display them below:

Morbid Mask' synergy with pushfarming (ITEM BUILD chapter):


... a 900 gold Morbid Mask allows you to stay on the lane even after a successful gank and recover your HP

while pushfarming with lifesteal.

This gives both gold and HP regen. Not to mention experience.

Look what happens in a minute (60 seconds):

Your starting DMG was 64 (49-79 averaged). Add +6*2.9 (you're at least at level 7 now) and you get +17.4 DMG. Add

+9 DMG coming from your Null Talisman (+3 STR and +3 DMG) and 3 Iron Branches for a total of 64+17+9=90

DMG. For the sake of simplicity, we'll consider it 100 so the discussion can be looked at DPS increase (%).

So 15% out of 100 is 15.

With Morbid Mask (for an assumed hit each 2 seconds, 30 hits/min) without Chaos Strike:


Total HP gain: 15*30=450 HP/minute
Total HP loss: Depends

With Morbid Mask (for an assumed hit each 2 seconds, 30 hits/min), with Chaos Strike - 10% means 3 out of

30 hits:

Chaos Strike level 1
Total HP gain: 15*27+1.5*15*3=405+67.5=472.5 HP/minute
Total HP loss: Depends

Chaos Strike level 2:
Total HP gain: 15*27+2*15*3=405+90=490 HP/minute
Total HP loss: Depends

Chaos Strike level 3:
Total HP gain: 15*27+2.5*15*3=405+112.5=517.5 HP/minute
Total HP loss: Depends

Chaos Strike level 4:
Total HP gain: 15*27+3*15*3=405+135=540 HP/minute
Total HP loss: Depends

Note:

(540-450)/450=90/450=0.2

By the way, this is exactly the DPS increase a maxed out Chaos Strike yields, 20%. ^^

So theoretically, your total LS with a 15% feedback will be (15+0.2*15)% which is 18%!

Synergy, remember?


Morbid Mask' synergy with Armlet of Mordiggian


Lifesteal with Armlet of Mordiggian is even better!

Remember how everybody says: 'Always toggle on your armlet before casting your ulti/using your Manta Style active, then you can toggle it off.'?

Well, having lifesteal around will allow you to keep your armlet on. Until the end of the fight. From basic lifesteal, 450 HP/min=7.5 HP/sec which is even more than the 7 HP/min regen the armlet gives you.

But taking into account an activated armlet will give +25 STR and +31 DMG bonus, our 100 DMG we started from will receive now a 56% (25+31=56) increase which translates into an extra 0.56*7.5=4.2 HP/min added lifesteal.

So adding up, 7+7.5+4.2= 18.7 HP/min out of a Morbid Mask + active Armlet of Mordiggian damage-wise.

We'll take a look now on what HP regen we'll have from his base health regen and the one coming from STR.

Chaos Knight's base HP regen is 0.25. Starting level 7 he'll have 20+6*2.9=20+17.4=37.4 STR from STATS alone. Add +6 from a Null Talisman and 3 Iron Branches together with the +25 coming from your active Armlet of Mordiggian for a total of 37.4+6+25=68.4 STR which means extra 68.4*0.03 which is a bit over 2.05. Add the base 0.25 and the lifesteal + armlet DMG-wise 18.7 and you get a total of

0.25+2.05+18.7=21 HP/sec.

Your armlet drains 40 HP/sec when active, but taking into account you'll get 21 HP/sec back as regen, it actually drains you 19 HP/sec. Dividing the 475 bonus HP that it gives you when active at 19 HP/sec we'll get exactly 25 seconds!

That means that even if you are not a pro that toggles his Armlet of Mordiggian like a magician, just keeping it on in a teamfight won't have a bad impact on you until the first 25 seconds.

But your Phantasm illusions last 24 seconds! And Manta Style ones 20!

And your illusions benefit from the STR bonus and not from the health drain!

Furthermore, while YOU benefit from lifesteal, your illusions will NOT, but WILL display the effect! So why toggle your armlet off?!? Keep it on for increased DPS output and even more confusion!

Toggling your armlet off will take the 56% DPS increase away from you together with its 4.2 corresponding HP regen from bonus lifesteal. Having no lifesteal at all will even diminish the golden 21 with 7.5 HP/sec more. Your armlet now on gives 'just'

21-4.2-7.5=9.3 HP/sec regen

which translates to 30.7 HP drain and to

475/30.7=15.5 seconds before it starts affecting you.

So having a basic lifesteal + Armlet of Mordiggian for your core delays the time threshold you need to toggle off/on your armlet from 15.5 to 25 seconds! 9.5 out of 15.5 is a 62% increase! Not to mention you'll deal 56% more DMG for additional 62% time (1.56*0.62=0.96) which is a 96% DPS increase from YOU ALONE. Factor in a level 6 illusion or two level 11 ones and you can easily see while you wreck havoc among those immortals.

So lifesteal + Armlet of Mordiggian is the CORE way to go. Null Talisman and INT Power Treads make up for a perfect start to make you a feared presence on the battlefield from early to midgame.

Just activate your Armlet of Mordiggian (ulti if not on cd) and start (PRC...) crushing enemies.

Don't flee and don't toggle off your armlet, as it will single out you from your illusions aside for the other bad things we talked about above.

And next time you'll get out of a battle with under 475 HP, thank Armlet of Mordiggian and my guide for sharing its lifesteal synergy with you.


Now let's calculate how much can I get out of a Mekansm + Armlet of Mordiggian combo:

I can use its (Mek') active each 45 seconds, so let's consider I'll use it twice in a minute (it's a bit off, but I 'rounded' Chaos Knight's level 7 DMG to 100 from 90, so it's almost similar... in a way) I'll get another 240 HP/s from it's aura, going to a total of 740 (wow! But hold on...) HP/minute. And 740 divided by 60 seconds is 12.33 HP/s (which is a biiiit over the 9.56 HP/s given by gamepedia, but let's assume 12.33 HP/s regen is the good value.

I've calculated before that Chaos Knight's HP/s from STR alone is 2.05 HP/s with Armlet of Mordiggian on.

But you have 5 STR more than I do, so let's add that up, too: 5*0.03=0.15 HP/s regen, going to a total of 2.20 HP/s from STR alone and with activated Armlet of Mordiggian.

Now we'll just add the 7 HP/s given by Armlet pf Mordiggian and the 12.33 from Mekansm giving a total of 21.38 HP/s and a 40-21.53=18.47 HP/s degen (which is pretty close to my 19 HP/s degen of Morbid Mask + Armlet of Mordiggian.

Dividing 475 HP to 18.47 we get 25.72 seconds of keeping the Armlet on before it starts to affect you, which indeed is a biiit greater time than my 25 seconds coming from Morbid Mask and Armlet of Mordiggian, but there's a catch: you also have +5 more armor and +5 STR, so you'll take less damage together with having a 'reserve' of 19*5=95 HP. Factoring that in, You get 475+95=590 HP that divided by 18.47 yield 31.94 seconds which indeed beats my time with a hefty 7 seconds! There's only one catch to it: it's not greater than 45 seconds which is the cooldown of Mekansm and teamfights last around 10, maybe 20 seconds at most, not 45, so you really can't use the active twice in battle, going to a more realistic 250+240=490 HP/s coming from Mekansm alone that translates to 8.17 HP/s and to:

590/[40-(2.2+7+8.17)]=590/(40-17.37)=590/22.63=26.07 seconds before the Armlet degen really starts to affect you.

But I have my combo earlier than you and yours is more expensive than mine. If I'd uppgrade my Morbid Mask to Vladmir's Offering, we'd be on the same page regarding Armor. Now here's the (smallest) catch: Vladmir's Offering gives 2 HP/s regen that will take my degen to 17 HP/s and 475/17 to 27.94 seconds. The big one is this: add in the +15% bonus damage that Vladi gives and translate that into lifesteal... Want even more? Consider you don't hit once each 2 seconds, but once per second: I just took off to the Moon by doubling my HP/s coming from lifesteal while you're standing still. My only problem is I NEED TO HIT, so basically if I have Omniknight around, I won't buy a Mekansm nor ask him to use his for me but just ask him to Repel me instead to make myself sure I'll deliver those hits! Or buy an expensive Black King Bar which I kind of don't.

Another (great) example: what if I keep my Morbid Mask but get a Vitality Booster? Tough luck, I'm 250-95=155 HP over yours and I'm still having CHEAPER items than you do! So no, Mekansm + Armlet of Mordiggian; it was close, but still no.

Want even more reasoning? Lifesteal SCALES UP with increasing damage, while 250 HP from Mekansm does not. Sure, at the beginning of mid-game, 250 HP can represent roughly 25% of any hero's current HP, or a Vitality Booster to everyone for 2300 gold, not 5500 ***mulated gold, but it's not your job to support (in this way). 'Support' by crushing the skulls of enemy supports first and doing it as quick as you can. Sure, Vladmir's Offering is very good for you and can easily be 'mistaken' for a support item so you can 'support' in this way, too. ^^

There's another catch that I circled but have not addressed until now: Mekansm active cost 150 Mana! You'd rather stun the enemy (for some minor damage and) to ooze in more hits considering you deal 156 DMG/s or heal yourself for 250 HP? I'll definitely STUN!

Bottom line: if you want to HIT and CARRY, go for lifesteal + Armlet of Mordiggian and only if you want to get hit and support, go for Mekansm + Armlet of Mordiggian; plus, Mekansm is an item that doesn't SCALE UP as the game goes on.

To wrap this up, I can give you cheaper item combinations that do a similar stuff, their only drawback being the increased number of item slots they're using:

1. Magic Stick + Ring of Protection (375 gold) for 16% of the Mek price you get no STAS but a relative heal for 150 HP and Mana while boosting your Armor by +2.

2. Null Talisman + Ring of Basilius (970 gold) gives 20% more INT than Mekansm together with 0.65 MP/s regen and yields a permanent +2 Armor in an AOE but gives no HP/s nor 250 HP heal; you need your Null Talisman early on as a great cost-effective boost to your mana and Ring of Basilius upgrades to a later Vladmir's Offering

3. Ring of Aquila (975 gold) is an item (ab)used by AGI heroes that gives 3-9-3 STATS together with +9 DMG and +2 Armor in an AOE together with an 0.65 MP/s regen. Again, RoA can be dismantled to use its RoB component in a later Vladi. I (almost) love this on STR heroes as it is a cheap Drum of Endurance replacement because it yields 9 AGI together with 3 STR and 9 DMG that are similar to what you get out of a Drum, if you choose to sacrifice the INT, which in Chaos Knight's case, I don't.

4. Magic Wand + Ring of Basilius (1000 gold) give permanent 66% of the Mekansm STATS plus 0.65 MP/s regen, permanent +2 Armor in an AOE and 'sell' for less than half (43% actually) of Mekansm price, while being capable of 'healing' 225 HP AND 225 Mana FOR NO MANA cost each 13 seconds, provided enemies cast a total of 15 spells 'around' you before each use. Unfortunately, there's no HP/s regen but the good thing is you can easily upgrade Ring of Basilius to Vladmir's Offering (although I strongly suggest you start off (Vladi) with Morbid Mask).

5. Ring of Basilius + Vitality Booster (1600 gold) gives you a built-in Mek active for self and a +2 permanent Armor boost in an AOE that costs no mana. Alas, you don't get the 4 HP/s regen... cry me a river. Best thing: Vitality Booster takes you 1100 gold closer to your Heart of Tarrasque; pair that up with Armlet of Mordiggian and it's pretty close to gg. Is Reaver impossible to farm? Get Vladmir's Offering that is cheaper now you aready have its Ring of Basilius component! Or get them both! <3

6. Necronomicon (2700 gold): although this 'baby' is 17% more expensive than Mekansm, it has a built-in 60% of Mek' active (152 HP given by 8 STR) and 200% more INT (15 compared to 5). It's active is 3 times cheaper than Mekansm' and summons two little creatures that can push like crazy AND give a hand in case you encounter an enemy on the 'pushing' road. The bad thing to this is that you get no Armor from it, but hey, that's what Ring of Basilius is for!

Now... don't stray too far from the I A-M HoT item build and when I say 'far' I mean don't overspend on items that don't SCALE UP as the game progresses... Sure, Mekansm at level 8 gives you additional 250 HP compared to your maximum 1000 HP for 25%, but at level 16 that percentage will be closer to 13% and after your Armlet+HoT at around 6%.

The +5 Armor is fine, but it does not worth the money.

The STATS are good, but do not worth the money.

The active and passive are good, but fade early and mid-game to lifesteal and lategame to evasion and you definitely don't want to rush-rush this before your Power Treads!

As Chaos Knight doesn't have some AOE flash-farming capabilities built-in, I kind of reject this on him unless you want to build him as a support with a disable. The thing is if you take a look at Juggernaut, things are quite opposite: Juggernaut can end up carrying hard if he starts Mekansm-wise thanks to his Blade Fury. Healing Ward even makes him the perfect support for delivering state-of-the-art healing that's au pair with a Heart of Tarrasque for the very first level of Healing Ward and it's even in an AOE and even if your friends get hit! Juggernaut's ulti can even quiclky bring down an enemy without putting Jugg's life in jeopardy, as he is quite... IMMUNE while Omnislash-ing. CK's ulti immunity lasts 0.5 seconds just for the illusion mingle.

So next time you want to support with a carry, think Juggernaut. Too bad others don't: I recently got hefty commends for supporting with Jugg that unfortunately didn't yet materialize on my Juggernaut guide that is online for some time. :'(

But hey, I'd assume you'll downvote my Chaos Knight guide now and upvote the Juggernaut guide, right? :P

Build #3 from the Juggernaut guide is the 'pushealer' (as I call it) one where your precious Mekansm is core.

And it's online for quite some time. ^^

I have to go play some soccer now, but I'll come back to the other parts:

Zrog wrote:

Add in the Armlet of Mordiggian, and he already has more HP regen to counter the Armlet drain (not to mention the heal active), and he gets faster recovery after ganks than with lifesteal.

I understand that you might want to rush Armlet before Mek, but it's situational.

I don't actually agree with the lifesteal that early. I've tried it, and the lifesteal is minimal, even if pushing the wave. It also seems to be a bit counterintuitive to the way you'd want to play him - why would you be pushing a wave solo when you could be ganking or teamfighting? If you're out of mana, you're going to have to return to the fountain anyway before you can really fight again, unless someone is with you and has Arcane Boots. If your TEAM is pushing the tower with you, creeps will die so fast that you'll get very little lifesteal anyway.

I can understand a Vlad's being useful to your team, and that you could get it so that your harder carry doesn't have to, but I'd probably start with a Ring of Basilius for the mana regen (and armor) rather than the Morbid Mask.


of your message pretty soon. ^^

See you later! ;)

Hi-Breed
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