Help Support Our Growing Community

DOTAFire is a community that lives to help every Dota 2 player take their game to the next level by having open access to all our tools and resources. Please consider supporting us by whitelisting us in your ad blocker!

Want to support DOTAFire with an ad-free experience? You can support us ad-free for less than $1 a month!

Go Ad-Free
Smitefire logo

Join the leading DOTA 2 community.
Create and share Hero Guides and Builds.

Create an MFN Account






Or

6.87 Patch Notes: The Imbalance of Power

Please review our General Rules & Guidelines before posting or commenting anywhere on DOTAFire.

Forum » Theory Crafting » 6.87 Patch Notes: The Imbalance of Power 23 posts - page 1 of 3
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Terathiel » March 29, 2016 9:12pm | Report
I was two ways about bothering to do this, but seeing as Hamster posted his I've decided to throw my own thoughts into the mix. There's a few things I'd like to see, and more things I'd like to... not see. One of them is ginger and has a bow.

Alternate patch title: Risk vs Reward

General Changes



-Roshan no longer gives 200 gold to each hero of the team that killed him; that gold is now provided to whomever picks up the Aegis. Steal that **********er.

-Heroes are now credited with assists if they helped with non-damaging abilities such as Overgrowth and Global Silence. Shackleshot is excepted from this rule.

-Heroes are now granted double their normal attribute gain from level 24 to 25.
(For example, an Invoker hitting level 25 would gain 3.4 Strength, 3.8 Agility and 8 Intelligence, rather than 1.7/1.9/4.)
My OCDfrog plz.

-Hellbear Smasher damage reduced to 44-50.
-Hellbear damage reduced to 36-41.
-Swiftness Aura attack speed increased to 25.
-Dark Troll Summoner Skeleton Warrior movement speed increased to 315.
-Dark Troll Summoner Ensnare cooldown decreased to 13.

-The following abilities now disjoint projectiles: Time Walk, Haunt, Icarus Dive, Timberchain, Town Portal Scroll

Heroes



Abaddon
-Cast point improved to 0.37.
-If cast on an enemy, Mist Coil now inflicts the target with Abaddon's current level of Curse of Avernus.
- Curse of Avernus slow rescaled to 8/12/16/20%.
- Mist Coil damage rescaled to 100/175/250/300. Self-damage rescaled to 50/90/125/150.

Alchemist
-Strength gain increased from 1.8 to 2.4.
-Agility gain increased from 1.2 to 1.8.
-Starting Agility increased from 11 to 14.
-Starting armour increased by 3.
- Acid Spray now slows enemies in it by 3/4/6/9%.
- Greevil's Greed no longer works on illusions of Alchemist.
- Greevil's Greed base gold reduced to 4/6/8/10. Maximum bonus gold also reduced to stay in line.
- Unstable Concoction only stuns Alchemist for half its duration and deals half damage.
- Unstable Concoction maximum charge time increased to 6 seconds.
-Chemical Rage now grants 3/5/7 bonus armour.
-Chemical Rage base attack time reduced to 1.4/1.25/1.1.
-Chemical Rage duration increased to 30.

Bane
- Enfeeble can now be dispelled.

Chaos Knight
-Base HP regen increased to 1.
- Chaos Strike critical strike chance increased to 30% against creeps.

Clinkz
-Base Intelligence increased by 4.
-Intelligence gain increased to 1.95.

Death Prophet
- Crypt Swarm damage increased to 100/175/250/325.
- Silence now increases Death Prophet's attack speed and damage by 1/2/3/4 for every enemy it hits, lasting for the silence duration.
-Siphon Soul no longer pierces Spell Immunity.
-Added an Aghanim's Scepter upgrade for Death Prophet. Spirits now reduce the armour of targets they pass through by 1, with a maximum of 4/6/8 reduced armour.

Dragon Knight
- Dragon Tail damage increased from 25/50/75/100 to 75/90/105/120.
-If a tower is killed while affected by Corrosive Breath, Glyph of Fortification is not reset.

Drow Ranger
-Agility gain increased to 2.3.
- Marksmanship now only loses 50% of its Agility bonus from enemy Heroes within 400 units.

Faceless Void
-Movement speed increased to 310.
- Time Lock bonus damage is now 15/20/25/30 + 40% of Faceless Void's base damage. Deals a bonus 50% damage in Chronosphere.
-I'm up in the air about my previous Chronosphere rework, mainly because I think Time Dilation does that job very nicely now.

Huskar
-Base armour increased by 3.
-Burning Spears damage per second reduced from 5/10/15/20 to 5/8/11/14.
-Agility gain increased from 1.4 to 2.
- Berserker's Blood now grants 3/4/5/6 bonus damage per stack in addition to its other benefits.

Invoker
-Here we go.
- Tornado damage decreased from 3*Wex + 70 to 3*Wex + 40.
- Deafening Blast now moves slightly slower.
-Model changed; head is now slightly flatter due to repeated smackings with the nerf bat.

Lone Druid
-Renamed to Spirit Bear.
-Spirit Bear renamed to Lone Druid.
-Entangle now disables the following abilities: Ball Lightning, Activate Fire Remnant, Time Walk, Waveform, Timberchain, Rolling Boulder, Leap.
-Altered Aghanim's Scepter effect: Causes the bear to gain bonuses based on the Druid's stats. 10HP for every Strength, 1 damage for every 2 Agility, 1 armour for every 10 Agility. No longer allows the bear to attack at any distance from the Druid; instead increases the leash range to 2500.
-True Form movespeed loss reduced to 35.
-Battle Cry cooldown reduced to 40.
-Battle Cry duration increased to 8.

Luna
- Moon Glaives bounces rescaled from 1/2/3/6 to 3/4/5/6.
- Lunar Blessing damage increased from 14/22/30/38 to 16/25/34/43.
-Base Agility increased by 3.
-Attack range increased to 375.

Naga Siren
-Base damage increased by 7.
- Ensnare cast point improved to 0.3.
- Mirror Image illusion damage increased to 40%.
- Song of the Siren cooldown rescaled to 160/120/80.

Outworld Devourer
- Arcane Orb no longer steals mana; it now reduces the maximum mana pool of the hero. Literally the same as Hamster's change.
- Astral Imprisonment damage reduced to 0/75/150/225.

Phantom Assassin
- Stifling Dagger cooldown increased to 10 seconds.
- Phantom Strike reworked;
Spoiler: Click to view

-Blur reworked.
Spoiler: Click to view

- Coup de Grace critical strike chance increased to 20%.
- Coup de Grace critical multiplier decreased to 200/275/350%.
-Whenever Phantom Assassin gets a critical strike with Coup de Grace, the cooldowns on all her spells are reset.

Phantom Lancer
- Juxtapose illusion damage increased to 18%.
- Juxtapose now grants 4/5/6% magic resistance.

Queen of Pain
- Sonic Wave cooldown reduced to 130/100/70.

Shadow Demon
-Base armour increased by 2.
-Health regen increased to 1.5.
- Shadow Poison cooldown reduced to 2 seconds.
-Shadow Poison: Release now stuns the victims for 0.05/0.1/0.15/0.2 seconds, doubling for each additional stack of poison, to a maximum of 5 stacks.
-Purge capabilities of Demonic Purge improved. Is now a strong purge.

Terrorblade
-Speed loss from Metamorphosis reduced to 15.
-Added an Aghanim's Scepter upgrade for Terrorblade. Sunder can now be cast on Terrorblade, splitting him into two illusions that deal 50% damage and take 200% damage. The damage of these illusions is increased by up to 20% based on their proximity to each other. These illusions can both cast spells and use items, with the exception of Sunder. If both illusions die, Terrorblade dies. Lasts 25 seconds.

Tiny
- Toss no longer damages towers.
- Craggy Exterior bonus armour increased to 4/5/6/7. Stun duration reduced to 1/1.2/1.4/1.6.
- Grow attack speed loss reduced to 15/25/35.
-Aghanim's Scepter now gives Tiny a 30% chance to slow for 20% for 3 seconds on attack in addition to its other effects.

Weaver
-Base attack time increased to 1.7.
- Geminate Attack cooldown reduced to 5/4/3/2.

Windrunner
-Base Strength reduced by 1.
-Strength gain reduced to 2.
- Shackleshot duration reduced to 1.5/2/2.5/3.
- Focus Fire now gives 300 bonus attack speed rather than maxing the attack speed. Damage reduction reduced to 40%/25%/10% (30%/15%/0% with Aghanim's Scepter).

Items



-Black King Bar can now be upgraded to level 2. Level 2 Black King Bar does not refresh the spell immunity timer, but the minimum duration is 6.5 seconds.
+10/14 Strength
+24/32 damage

-Butterfly Agility, damage and attack speed bonus increased to 35.

-Diffusal Blade can now be upgraded to level 3. Level 2 has been rescaled accordingly. Now only has 7 charges.
+20/30/40 Agility
+6/10/15 Intelligence
+25/29/33 Mana Burn

-Divine Rapier damage reduced to 322.

-Orchid Malevolence recipe cost reduced to 675.

-Dagon now grants +5/8/11/14/17 to Agility and Strength, rather than +3. Intelligence boost remains the same.

-Ethereal Blade Ether Blast damage increased from 75 + 2*Primary to 150 + 2*Primary.

-Manta Style cooldown is now 35 for both modes. Both ranged and melee illusions now take 350% damage.

-Mekansm manacost reduced to 200. Mekansm Aura now grants +5HP regen (up from +4).

-Guardian Greaves active no longer dispels on the user.

-Sacred Relic cost decreased to 3600.
There are two kinds of people in the world; those who can count, and those who can't.

Meme central please give me ad revenue

Terathiel
<Veteran>

Awards Showcase
Show more awards

Remarkable (49)
Posts: 1415
Steam: Save me from this meme hell
View My Blog
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by TheSofa » March 29, 2016 9:18pm | Report
wait wait wait why are you buffing death prophet?

TheSofa
<Moderator>

Awards Showcase
Show more awards

Memorable (54)
Posts: 3318
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Hamstertamer » March 30, 2016 1:23am | Report
- You can't call a patch the imbalance of power, since the name is already taken for 6.86 Keepo

- Bane doesn't even skill Enfeeble. Typical Bane build is 0/4/4. Why nerf a skill that nobody even takes?

- Chaos Knight is now one of the fastest farmers in the entire game with an Iron Talon. Because obviously everyone is going to skip stun until last and rice with early crit. Sure that's what you want?

- As much as I used to like the hero, I have to admit, WR had gotten into cancer tier since ~6.84. Seriously screw that hero, and screw the hidden buffs she gets every patch. Nerf bat pls.

- Naga Siren doesn't need to be buffed that hard. She doesn't need a buff at all! Ult cooldown changes very little since she buys nectarine anyways.

- Faceless Void : Sure, but he's still not good enough to be viable as a carry. Besides, he's already too good as an offlaner so you can't buff that.

- dagon now core on every hero because it gives +17 to all stats. I like the idea of Dagon Morphling as much as anyone, but that's maybe a bit overkill. Although it does buff Dagon 5, the worst item in the game, and not Dagon 1. Dagon outworld devourer here we go :)

Lone Druid
-Renamed to Spirit Bear.
-Spirit Bear renamed to Lone Druid.
What the f???? So now you're playing a wandering bear (??) that can summon his pet druid (???) to right-click stuff for him? And has the ability to turn into a human at will? Mind = blown.
Strategy guide : Anti-pubstomper guide.
Hero guides : Spectre , Windranger and Clinkz
== Broodmother guide out! ==

Hamstertamer
<Editor>

Awards Showcase
Show more awards

Memorable (89)
Posts: 2620
View My Blog
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Bunkansee » March 30, 2016 1:53am | Report
Aw come on what's with the Windginger hate :( I may be biased, but I honestly done think the hero is OP. You don't just pick her and instantly win the game, the hero can be countered, just like every other hero in the game. There are so many other strong heroes out there, and this is the one you choose to nerf really hard? Her winrate isn't even very high, she isn't picked as much as that massive spike she had recently, and you still want to nerf like, everything about her? I'm gonna try and write as little as possible but here we go: Uhhh her ult isn't really even that strong, especially not without aghanims. I understand you finding it annoying that she can get max attack speed without having to buy anything, but it's what the hero is designed around. The drawback is big enough early game, 50% reduction is huge. I think her ult is fine, if you wanted to nerf something about it, nerf the aghs, the skill itself is fine. And I don't understand why everyone hates shackshot so much, its a stun that exists in the game, sure it lasts awhile, but it's no worse than being stunned for 4 seconds by chaos knight because he got lucky. But... Why are you nerfing the duration, if anything? It actually doesn't do anything. Reduce the search range if you really hate it so much, that's the BS part of the ability anyway. I really also don't think the strength nerf is needed at all. The hero is actually pretty squishy already, she gets bullied out of lane pretty hard by DP already, yet you buffed her but nerfed WR? Idk, I really think the hero is fine, you can do amazing stuff with her, but she's not autowin. Sorry if anything is misspelled, wrote this on my phone lawl.

Bunkansee
<Veteran>

Awards Showcase
Show more awards

Remarkable (32)
Posts: 1373
Steam: Bunkansee
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Terathiel » March 30, 2016 2:05am | Report
@Bunkan: It's because I hate the hero. I don't even care about the balance. She's overpicked and it irritates me, especially because it always seems to be some ****ty pub who can't even hit a powershot.

Hamstertamer wrote:

- You can't call a patch the imbalance of power, since the name is already taken for 6.86 Keepo


Fight me DansGame

Hamstertamer wrote:

- Bane doesn't even skill Enfeeble. Typical Bane build is 0/4/4. Why nerf a skill that nobody even takes?


It's a silly spell in the lategame that can pretty much shut down a huge part of a carry's damage output. Making it dispellable doesn't exactly make Bane worthless.

Hamstertamer wrote:

- Naga Siren doesn't need to be buffed that hard. She doesn't need a buff at all! Ult cooldown changes very little since she buys nectarine anyways.


I wanted to try and encourage a fighting Naga over a rat Naga, mainly through buffing the awkward cast point of Ensnare.

Hamstertamer wrote:

- Faceless Void : Sure, but he's still not good enough to be viable as a carry. Besides, he's already too good as an offlaner so you can't buff that.


I did some maths for this, and Void with 190 AGI (legit 6 slot items, not some ******ed agi stack build) bashes for 121, 182 in Chronosphere, as opposed to the 70/140 we have now. Small buffs for now. Don't want to break anything.

Hamstertamer wrote:

- dagon now core on every hero because it gives +17 to all stats. I like the idea of Dagon Morphling as much as anyone, but that's maybe a bit overkill. Although it does buff Dagon 5, the worst item in the game, and not Dagon 1. Dagon outworld devourer here we go :)


Maaaybe I overdid it, but Dagon 2+ does suck monkey nuts now :)

Hamstertamer wrote:

Lone Druid
-Renamed to Spirit Bear.
-Spirit Bear renamed to Lone Druid.
What the f???? So now you're playing a wandering bear (??) that can summon his pet druid (???) to right-click stuff for him? And has the ability to turn into a human at will? Mind = blown.


Nope, models remain the same. It's literally just a name change to mess with people's heads and I see no reason why this is a bad thing.
There are two kinds of people in the world; those who can count, and those who can't.

Meme central please give me ad revenue

Terathiel
<Veteran>

Awards Showcase
Show more awards

Remarkable (49)
Posts: 1415
Steam: Save me from this meme hell
View My Blog
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Bunkansee » March 30, 2016 2:12am | Report
Turns out my 1000 word essay on windrunner balance wasn't needed then, whoops. If it makes you feel any better, I promise I hit all the powershots.

Bunkansee
<Veteran>

Awards Showcase
Show more awards

Remarkable (32)
Posts: 1373
Steam: Bunkansee
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Hamstertamer » March 30, 2016 2:32am | Report
Terathiel wrote:

It's a silly spell in the lategame that can pretty much shut down a huge part of a carry's damage output. Making it dispellable doesn't exactly make Bane worthless.


It actually doesn't scale very well into lategame, since in a late game situation you hardly even have the time to cast it, since nighmare and your ult take priority. The whole point of this skill is to put 2 points in it during the laning stage and spam it on the enemy offlaner or mid hero so he can't last hit or trade hits with you. But people don't even do that these days. they go 0/4/4 + stats.

Terathiel wrote:

I wanted to try and encourage a fighting Naga over a rat Naga, mainly through buffing the awkward cast point of Ensnare.


I get it, but instead you buffed rat Naga and that's it. As I said, song 'nerf' changes nothing as octarine still makes it have no cooldown.

Buff fighting Naga if you want but if you do that you need to actually nerf rat Naga...which you didn't :)


Terathiel wrote:

I did some maths for this, and Void with 190 AGI (legit 6 slot items, not some ******ed agi stack build) bashes for 121, 182 in Chronosphere, as opposed to the 70/140 we have now. Small buffs for now. Don't want to break anything.


Void is really in the dumpster as a carry right now. You have lots of room to buff that. He has only one carry skill right now and it's his bash. Which sucks.
Seriously replace Time Lock with Cloak and Dagger for all I care ;)
(really good in ability draft btw)

Terathiel wrote:

Maaaybe I overdid it, but Dagon 2+ does suck monkey nuts now :)


Yeah. It really does. But Dagon 5 is balanced around Tinker, IMO the only hero on which upgrading a Dagon isn't ****.
Other heroes are perfectly fine with a value Dagon 1 in the early game. For me it's as if Dagon didn't even have an upgrade path.

A way to buff Dagon 5 without breaking Tinker is simply to reduce the cooldown. Cooldown reduced from 35/30/25/20/15 to 30/25/20/15/10. There.


Terathiel wrote:

Nope, models remain the same. It's literally just a name change to mess with people's heads and I see no reason why this is a bad thing.


So it's just to confuse people, like if they were stranded on Planet of the Bears. Sure ;)
Strategy guide : Anti-pubstomper guide.
Hero guides : Spectre , Windranger and Clinkz
== Broodmother guide out! ==

Hamstertamer
<Editor>

Awards Showcase
Show more awards

Memorable (89)
Posts: 2620
View My Blog
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by ChiChi » March 30, 2016 2:58am | Report
Bunkansee wrote:

Turns out my 1000 word essay on windrunner balance wasn't needed then, whoops. If it makes you feel any better, I promise I hit all the powershots.


Ahah no need to say Bunkan is right with this, and it's not because he likes the hero so much - he also loves heroes like Death Profet and we talked about how a bit on the strong side she might be. But Tera is more cientifically honest than Hamster - he wants change not because it's needed, but because it irritates him xD

Funny fact: my Enchantress, which is super mega strong right now, isn't touched by anyone (the cure nerf by Hamster doesn't seem enough for me). Is it just me that thinks she could use some change for balance, even if it will make me sad? No need to nerf you see osfrog, long live bambi eheh

Credits to Janitsu!

Ammateurs coaching channel iei! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOBsWN_45WjrRXLAWUqeyaA

ChiChi
<Veteran>

Awards Showcase
Show more awards

Remarkable (47)
Posts: 1559
Steam: Chi-Chi
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Terathiel » March 30, 2016 3:11am | Report
I didn't really buff rat Naga at all, since rats don't need disables and +7 base damage on a single 35% illusion is... not a lot, really. I just didn't nerf it.

I also don't think Void works badly as a carry. Prior to all the nerfs in 6.82 he was a very good carry, and he's only been buffed (in all aspects) since then. His main weakness was always reliance on his ult - that's mostly been remedied with the addition of Anal Dilation.
There are two kinds of people in the world; those who can count, and those who can't.

Meme central please give me ad revenue

Terathiel
<Veteran>

Awards Showcase
Show more awards

Remarkable (49)
Posts: 1415
Steam: Save me from this meme hell
View My Blog
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Hamstertamer » March 30, 2016 4:28am | Report
More base damage means more lane dominance, both in safelane and in mid. So much faster Radiance. So much more rat.

Being completely unable to contest an enemy Quelling Blade Naga's last hits and see her come out with a <15 min radiance in every game is really ragequit material :)

Mirror Image illusion damage was nerfed for a reason...because all these illusions ever do is hit buildings.

It's actually pretty hard to buff fighting Naga without making rat Naga broken. I don't think I could do it if I tried. I would start by removing the Radiance miss chance from illusions, but even that isn't enough.
Strategy guide : Anti-pubstomper guide.
Hero guides : Spectre , Windranger and Clinkz
== Broodmother guide out! ==

Hamstertamer
<Editor>

Awards Showcase
Show more awards

Memorable (89)
Posts: 2620
View My Blog

Quick Reply

Please log in or sign up to post!

DOTAFire is the place to find the perfect build guide to take your game to the next level. Learn how to play a new hero, or fine tune your favorite DotA hero’s build and strategy.

Copyright © 2019 DOTAFire | All Rights Reserved