Xyrus's #RoadTo4k Thread

Take a look at the other team, Wyvern has an easy time Counter-Initiating by using her Ult on me or someone near me, and every time I showed up, I got focused by Windrunner. Add in a Tidehunter whose only use is Ravage and a Slark whose only use was...well I never did figure out what he was useful for and there is no point showing up to a fight you cannot win.

If you look at the ohter team's Stats, it's pretty clear the Windrunner carried them hard, and he certainly wasn't dumb enough to get caught out by Omnislash. If I get into a Auto-Attack competition, I lose due to Focus Fire, which she reserved especially for me.

Given that we lacked any real advantage in a teamfight, it was better to try and get single pickoffs with Meat Hook and Remote Mines.

Honestly, if there was an Item I feel I should have prioritized, it would have to be Linken's Sphere. I needed something to deal with Winter's Curse and Focus Fire. That would have solved at least one issue in Teamfights...at least while I had BKB up.

True, but spamming the exact same Hero over and over again every game, every day is not particularly appealing, plus, I'm still trying out new Heroes and new Builds to test their effectiveness. Once I've tried enough and found the heroes, Skill BUilds and items that work for me in different situations, I'll focuis a bit more

I'm already in 0 skill games... T-T

Not much point making an alt account, when I can just experiment on my main in Unranked.

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http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2086270636

Razor definitely shows promise. <}3

Just need a few more games to make sure he really does work as well as I hope he does. <}3

If you were dying like this in teamfights, you were clearly doing something wrong. And the funny thing is, if you weren't joining fights at all, then you were supposed to be farming your *** off, which you also weren't, and as Dimony pointed out, not planning on either judging by your build. It's legit to also just afk farm, but then you need to do that right. But to be a good Jugg, you really need to learn how to enter to Not die to Winter nor WR. You get pick-offs, you enter with Omnislash and then spin out of there, you do whatever needed to not get caught up by obvious spells which you have ways of counter on your own skill set. Don't use the enemy team as an excuse for what you're doing wrong, specially if you want to get better: try to actually listen to what other people have to say about your games, because they can probably point out some details better and if they're saying somethng, it's because they have a reason to believe it is so.




Same thing. If you were not managing to kill her with your skill set, then you're doing something wrong, and of course you're not supposed to start an Auto-Attack competition with her - specially also, like Dimony pointed out, if you don't have an MKB. If "she isn't dumb enought to get caught out by Omnislash", it's because your positioning was dumb enough to allow that.




While you idly farmed (and split pushed). Except you didn't do it, and you didn't prepare to do it with the right items and maxed abilities. So you were still trying to fight, even knowing you were losing those fights. Also you didn't prepare for pick offs either - did you know that most Juggers I have been seen in the most recent pro games have been actually going for a Blink Dagger? Food for thought.




For this I sincerily can't answer seriously, I just feel like I need to say this first: during all the time you're convinced that a Linken's Sphere is a good item for a Jugger, you belong in 2k, no offense xD it's just you need to learn that not all heroes and items are completely flexible. You have a carry that has actually three super strong defensive spells, which allow him to play him really aggressively and still be rewarded with little death, and you want to do another completely defensive item that blocks the one spell, for that only first time (because if the opponents are completely ******ed, they will break your linken's easily, and there goes that billion gold washed away by some stupid easy spell like Lightning Storm). There's a reason why no Jugger EVER goes for that item: it's because it sucks. So don't think you need it to counter them, just realize you need to learn how to play the hero because he's not supposed to need it at all.




This is true. And I hope you're having fun more than tryharding indeed, because tryharding is so tiring. So good luck with continuing this!

Woah, since when did chi chi start coaching xyrus? i missed a lot

Don't forget that Linken's Sphere is the very definition of a situational item : it's an item you get for the active and nothing else, so it's situational on pretty much every hero and core on none.

Actually in this game it was way more useful than Black King Bar, since BKB only blocks Leshrac and is almost useless against the other heroes (Storm is mainly physical damage, jumps you before you BKB, and can kite BKBs anyways). While Linkens blocks WR initiation, Storm initiation, Wyvern ulti, and Lesh's Euls. And jugger is a great splitpusher so linkens makes sense on him.

But yeah you needed MKB Xyrus. Always buy MKB against WR. As a second item at most really, since that hero snowballs super hard and needs to be shut down ASAP. When I see people rush MKB against Phantom Assassin who has 50% evasion but not against WR who has 100% evasion, I say FailFish.




Chichi boost me pls <3

Ahah I think we all should coach each other all the time, and we actually do, Xyrus has taught me loads of stuff. I'm just trying to help him as well, cause Jugg is actually a hero I know very well and I've seen a huge amount of higher level games with him. Besides, we're brothers in 2k, although I will probably never have a solo mmr ahah




This is a fact, I think, not even just your opinion but a definite truth. An obvious one though, so I didn't think I needed to dwell on that :)

But as for the item in Jugg: I still stand for my opinion, which is the item sucks on him so much that you only get it if you really, really need it, and not in this game, nop. I'm not so sure as you are that BKB wouldn't be a good idea actually, but still, even if we agree BKB not necessary, I still say Linken's would suck. I would much rather have the Blink Dagger, and splitpush and enter fights properly with it (good luck WR, which for some reason is not considered a counter to Jugg).

Nah, I needed both. It wouldn't be hard for their team to pop Linken's Sphere to let Windrunner Focus Fire me, and between Shackle shot, Static Link and Split Earth, I'm going to get locked down without BKB.

So i watched the jugger game you linked, aaaand have a lot of criticism.

So you played the farm game well especialy in the beginning but the problem is you didnt actually do anything but pushing out lanes.
Also you didnt actually farm for anything. You didnt have any meaningfull items before 50!!!! Minutes. Look at minute 35, your slark is 10k behind you but will have prety much the same impact in fights with his items.

The basher was useless, the bkb was useless besides never being used well. Complete afk farm but no items to keep farming and after that no impactfull items. No MKB as multiple people said.
You say you needed linkens and BKB but i would try to het away with neither and maybe the BKB, but it was hard to tell cause i dint see you actually teamfighting properly.

Also i wathed it from player perspective and you didnt look at anything, not at the fights if you should join, not even considering, not looking at enemy items, and i couldnt see ofcourse but not talking and coaching your team.
And your team was actually winning fights without you despite having techies. So if you had joined and actualy fought you could have won those harder and used it to push.

Now you got bad items, didnt look at items which caused you to misplay in every fight besides the early one at the radiant sideshop.
Using ulties on a euls lesh, thinking to rightclick a lycan without big items despite a lot of farm, dieback, not getting blink to hardcounter the wind.

Basically you shouldnt assume you are better then your team and actually pay attention and contribute.


So this is why i did all the complaining about others comments, xyrus needs to actually improve because hes not 4k material now. There i said it, sorry but cant say it another way, overthinking about picks is not doing anything.

Xyrus i dont know if you realised all these errors i listed but i doubt it. So please take this as advice if you actually want to get 4k. Focus on improving.
And it seems you arent comfortable playing ranked, you should just play.
And if you arent comfortable with consistently playing well and winning games because of it then drop this time consuming stuff about hero picks and just pick heroes you are good with and focus on improving.

Hi Xyrus.

Let me offer my two cents.

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While I completely agree that Linken's Sphere, Black King Bar, and Monkey King Bar were completely necessary to fight them, I believe there are other alternatives that you maybe could've taken.

Firstly, let me boil down Juggernaut builds into three main trees:

1. No Bfury, early game dominance (Aquila, Drums, Sny, etc.)
2. Bfury fighting/farming (Bfury, Manta, BKB, Abyssal, etc.)
3. Bfury farming/pushing (Bfury, Manta, BoTs, Blink, Deso/Mjollnir/AC etc)

Basically what I'm trying to say is this: When you realize that you need a hoard of items to even be able to fight them (BKB, MKB, Linkens), don't fight them.

I'm not sure how the game went (haven't watched it), but I'm sure, with enough map awareness, that you could've ratted the entire game. BKB wasn't necessary because you're not fighting them. Spin is usually enough to get you away (and dodge stuff like Shackleshot), and Manta Style can be used to dispel Orchid Malevolence.

The only thing you have to watch out for is the Winter Wyvern.

I'd like to point out that they have no catch that pierces Spell Immunity besides Winter's Curse.

If you see WW on the map, you're completely safe to rat.

R[A]T hard. :D

Thankfully, with the 6.86 nerf, Winter Wyvern is not a catch hero anymore, and is actually countered really hard by rat dota.

Her ulti was watered down from Primal Roar on single targets to pretty much Astral Imprisonment...if she commits a 2 minute cooldown ult for a long range euls that is. By the way you can Blink Dagger out of Wyvern ult now since it blocks all damage from enemies, I think this deserves a mention.

So right now Wyvern is a teamfighter that has nothing against single targets, and has "please rat me" written all over. Kind of the same as Dazzle, Omniknight or other defensive supports. Her heal is still stupid, but it's just one skill, so at least she's manageable now. Sure it's kind of silly that her ult got nerfed and not her E, but the important thing is that she *was* nerfed. Thank God Icefrog.

It's like the Frog is saying if you hate defensive supports, just be a r[A]t. Will do ;)

Hopefully he takes this the right way. I like the way you put it, straight forward in his face, but with a helping attitude. (so German!)