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Need some help with Support item building.

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Forum » New Player Help » Need some help with Support item building. 7 posts - page 1 of 1
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Sasquatch180 » July 26, 2014 8:04pm | Report
So I've recently gotten into Dota2 (coming from SMITE), and mainly have been playing a Support role.

I find that I do fairly well (not feeding, warding where it is needed, initiating and saving teammates) but I feel/know that I am building a bit selfishly.

To clarify, I feel that I'm building items that while helpful to myself, is not entirely helpful to my team.

So I am looking for some advice/recommendations on items for Supports, including what can be considered "Standard" items (items that can and should be built on most Supports.)

Any help would be appreciated.

Sasquatch180



Posts: 1
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Killa42 » July 26, 2014 8:34pm | Report
Well, first of all welcome to Dota 2, you will love it.

1 - Every hard support needs to buy constantly wards, dust... this is a hard support. They also buy mekansm and a wand for yourself. For helping the teammates in lane you will need also arcane boots (not all the supports need it) or just power treads.
2 - Now, if you aren't a hard support, you are just a semi-support or a jungler support, usually buy a ring of basilius for more mana regen and tranquil boots or power treads (if you dont now its the most common boot in the game, because you can change the attribute).

Also, Drum of Endurance, Vladimir's Offering (for example Abaddon who can be a hard support or a hard carry) and Pipe of Insight.

3 - How to differentiate hard supports of other supports? Hard Supports are those who dont (really) need to farm and have only abilities that can heal your friend, or abilites that slow and stuns, but cannot kill alone. For example: Dazzle, Witch Doctor (even with his ultimate), Omniknight, Io, KOTL, Jakiro, Leshrac, Treant Protector. Now, jungle supports are Enigma, Chen, Enchantress and also Sand King who can go at jungle or lane. Other supports heroes like shadow demon, ancient apparition, Sven (semi-support or carry), Lina and necrophos needs more farm, so they can get items like aghanim, refresher, bloodstone, shiva's guard, even assault cuirass.

Well this is my opinion, and sorry for my bad english (im brazilian)
Hope it helps you!

Killa42



Posts: 7
Steam: Killa42
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Hamstertamer » July 26, 2014 10:47pm | Report
Welcome to Dota!

Playing support is a bit of an art because you build completely different items every game. Indeed as you say the question is not "what does your hero need" but "what does your team need". The point of supports is that they're almost completely item-independent and hard supports can be played without a single item!

The stereotypical hard support build is Arcane Boots -> Mekansm -> Force Staff. You can't go wrong with that build so if you want a quick answer you can just make that.

But in general it's more of "what does your team need at a specific moment" :

- Mekansm : your team needs one in almost every game, it's the best item for early/midgame teamfights and early pushing. You make mek because you want to push early, as soon as you get your mek call your team, group up, and push some towers.

- Urn of Shadows : it's basically the poor man's Mek, it's also a pushing item because it heals your teammates during pushes. It's a great item on ganking supports like Enchantress, Vengeful Spirit, Crystal Maiden... Can replace Mek on mana-starved heroes like Bane.

- Drum of Endurance : some people like drum on supports but it almost always fails the "would I rather have a mek" or "would I rather have a forcestaff" test. Extremely situational, drum is mainly a mid-game item for carries.

- Force Staff : it's a great item on any support and you can't ever go wrong by making a forcestaff. It's an absolute must if the enemy team has slowing heroes like Viper or Drow Ranger to save yourself and your teammates. It's great for escaping, saving teammates, chasing, and generally making some plays happen.

- Ghost Scepter : it makes you immune to physical damage and it will save your life a lot. Get it if you want to avoid feeding. It counters right-clickers like Ursa or Clinkz.

- Blink Dagger : It's an absolute must if your support is also an initiator. If you're playing Enigma, Sand King, Earthshaker, Tidehunter, Treant Protector etc then you really need that blink ASAP and it's often the first item you should get - Mek first is the only viable alternative.

- Pipe of Insight : it block magic damage for your team. Get it if they have a lot of AOE nukes like Zeus, Invoker, Sand King, etc.

- Eul's Scepter of Divinity : it's both an item to save yourself from getting focused AND a disable that removes an enemy hero from the fight completely for 2.6 seconds. It's good for ganking especially if you already have Blink dagger/Forcestaff, and removing that pesky Axe or Wraith King from a teamfight is always a good thing.

- Vladmir's Offering : Yes, Vlads is a SUPPORT item, people build it on carries way too much. The aura gives armor and damage to your team in teamfights, and lifesteal to your melee carries. It's a great item to buy if your team has a lot of melee right-clickers e.g Phantom Assassin, Anti-Mage, Tiny, Sven, Slardar, etc OR if the enemy team has a lot of armor reduction.

- Veil of Discord : Amplifies your team's magical damage. Get it on supports with heavy AOE nukes like Venomancer, Lich, Sand King, Jakiro OR if the rest of your team has a lot of magical damage like Invoker.

- Necronomicon : this is the game's pushing item. Get it if your team wants to push. Generally you want to push if the enemy team has farming hard carries (e.g Anti-Mage, Phantom Lancer, Spectre, Faceless Void, Terrorblade...) to prevent them from freefarming and owning you in the late game. Get necro if you want to push with your team and end the game early. Necro gives true sight and it's also the ultimate counter to invisible heroes like Riki or Weaver.

- Aghanim's Scepter : Only get it if your ultimate is important enough to be gamechanging. The upgrade is really good on some supports but it sucks on some other ones : for example it's almost core on Ancient Apparition or Visage but you really won't need it on a support Skywrath Mage :)

- dagon : NEVER EVER make Dagon on supports except if you're trolling. It's an item for gankers.

- Rod of Atos, Heaven's Halberd and Orchid Malevolence : they're not completely support items, more like semi-carry items, but they give very useful disables that you may need in some games.

If you're relly farmed you can consider some luxuries :

- Shiva's Guard : It's mainly an item for initiators who jump in the middle of the enemy team and pop this item to slow and damage them. It's great for initiating teamfights if you have a blink dagger/forcestaff. Also counters right-clickers.

- Scythe of Vyse : the ultimate item for intelligence heroes. If for some reason you are sitting on a ton of gold then don't think twice and just grab a sheepstick. The disable is completely gamechanging ; it's your best late game item. get it early if playing against evasive heroes like Anti-Mage or Storm Spirit, it really helps.

- Refresher Orb : Get it on initiators who have a game-changing ultimate with a long cooldown : Enigma, Warlock, Dark Seer, Tidehunter, Omniknight, and...yeah that's essentially it, very few supports need one.

Get those when needed :

- Observer Wards. You should buy them on every cooldown and place them, it's absolutely gamechanging. Supporting is 99% about proper warding, the rest is just details.

- Sentry Wards : to deward enemy observer wards

- Smoke of Deceit : to gank without being seen by enemy wards, or to do Roshan

- Dust of Appearance : always, always carry dust if they have even a single invisible hero.

You can make your picks from the list, and feel free to experiment. Your items won't be the same twice because it's all dependent on the game, your team, and the enemy team.

Hope this helps, cheers!
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Zerak Kyria » July 26, 2014 11:32pm | Report
Well Before I help you I'd like to clarify something that Killa and Hamtertamer said;
A Hard Support is general a hero who doesn't need levels to help their team, they generally get Boots of Speed around the 10 minute mark due to the constant purchase of Wards to give vision to the team along with trying to de-ward (remove enemy wards by gaining vision of them using Sentry Wards. Not only that but you generally die a lot due to trying to make sure your carry stays alive.

Now onto your question;
You seem to be playing a 4th role (hard support is 5) which basically is the support he gets more levels, has more gold and doesn't buy wards on mass end. Obviously in pubs you will be buying normal wards and not much of the sentry kind.

Items which should be built for supporting your team as mentioned range but your stereotypical build which you should aim for most games is; Arcane Boots >> Mekansm then buying items which help your team whether they be Eul's Scepter of Divinity to eliminate a pesky enemy hero from a fight for 2 seconds to help give you the edge or save someone or Pipe of Insight to give your team some magic resistance during teamfights, Urn of Shadows should be built before Mekansm if your team is getting a fair amount of kills because it will allow you to keep allies on full health when moving between lanes or after fights.

When heading into late game you should be either going for a Scythe of Vyse as it can give you a massive edge during teamfights by removing their carry from play for a short time. Necronomicon is also great as it helps push lanes easier, gives you some aura for the team and can hurt enemy supports who hang back and just trying and use their abilities.

If you have enough gold to buy all of that and the game is still going ask yourself, am I stealing kills from my carry. It's something I used to do as a support so yeah be wary.
Your new diet for heroes; You will need 4 wards (cuz wards taste better), 1 set of tangoes, 1 mango, 1 cheese.
With this you can make a nice Tango Mango Cheese platter. You can wash this all down with a nice bottle of water, Can be flavoured with red, green, yellow, blue, purple AND GOLD!
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Wulfstan » July 27, 2014 1:05am | Report
Quoted:

- Ghost Scepter : it makes you immune to physical damage and it will save your life a lot. Get it if you want to avoid feeding. It counters right-clickers like Ursa or Clinkz. If you get ganked you can just ghost and TP out.


I am pretty sure that the ethereal state gets dispelled once you start channeling Town Portal Scroll.

However, it works with Boots of Travel.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by JO3MWHIT3 » July 27, 2014 1:18am | Report
Hamstertamer wrote:

Welcome to Dota!

Playing support is a bit of an art because you build completely different items every game. Indeed as you say the question is not "what does your hero need" but "what does your team need". The point of supports is that they're almost completely item-independent and hard supports can be played without a single item!

The stereotypical hard support build is Arcane Boots -> Mekansm -> Force Staff. You can't go wrong with that build so if you want a quick answer you can just make that.

But in general it's more of "what does your team need at a specific moment" :

- Mekansm : your team needs one in almost every game, it's the best item for early/midgame teamfights and early pushing. You make mek because you want to push early, as soon as you get your mek call your team, group up, and push some towers.

- Urn of Shadows : it's basically the poor man's Mek, it's also a pushing item because it heals your teammates during pushes. It's a great item on ganking supports like Enchantress, Vengeful Spirit, Crystal Maiden... Can replace Mek on mana-starved heroes.

- Drum of Endurance : some people like drum on supports but it almost always fails the "would I rather have a mek" or "would I rather have a forcestaff" test. Extremely situational, drum is mainly a mid-game item for carries.

- Force Staff : it's a great item on any support and you can't ever go wrong by making a forcestaff. It's an absolute must if the enemy team has slowing heroes like Viper or Drow Ranger to save yourself and your teammates. It's great for escaping, saving teammates, chasing, and generally making some plays happen.

- Ghost Scepter : it makes you immune to physical damage and it will save your life a lot. Get it if you want to avoid feeding. It counters right-clickers like Ursa or Clinkz. If you get ganked you can just ghost and TP out.

- Blink Dagger : It's an absolute must if your support is also an initiator. If you're playing Enigma, Sand King, Earthshaker, Tidehunter, Treant Protector etc then you really need that blink ASAP and it's often the first item you should get - Mek first is the only viable alternative.

- Pipe of Insight : it block magic damage for your team. Get it if they have a lot of AOE nukes like Zeus, Invoker, Sand King, etc.

- Eul's Scepter of Divinity : it's both an item to save yourself from getting focused AND a disable that removes an enemy hero from the fight completely for 2.6 seconds. It's good for ganking especially if you already have Blink dagger/Forcestaff, and removing that pesky Axe or Wraith King from a teamfight is always a good thing.

- Vladmir's Offering : Yes, Vlads is a SUPPORT item, people build it on carries way too much. The aura gives armor and damage to your team in teamfights, and lifesteal to your melee carries. It's a great item to buy if your team has a lot of melee right-clickers e.g Phantom Assassin, Anti-Mage, Tiny, Sven, Slardar, etc OR if the enemy team has a lot of armor reduction.

- Veil of Discord : Amplifies your team's magical damage. Get it on supports with heavy AOE nukes like Venomancer, Lich, Sand King, Jakiro OR if the rest of your team has a lot of magical damage like Invoker.

- Necronomicon : this is the game's pushing item. Get it if your team wants to push. Generally you want to push if the enemy team has farming hard carries (e.g Anti-Mage, Phantom Lancer, Spectre, Faceless Void, Terrorblade...) to prevent them from freefarming and owning you in the late game. Get necro if you want to push with your team and end the game early. Necro gives true sight and it's also the ultimate counter to invisible heroes like Riki or Weaver.

- Aghanim's Scepter : Only get it if your ultimate is important enough to be gamechanging. The upgrade is really good on some supports but it sucks on some other ones : for example it's almost core on Ancient Apparition or Visage but you really won't need it on a support Skywrath Mage :)

- dagon : NEVER EVER make Dagon on supports except if you're trolling. It's an item for gankers.

- Rod of Atos, Heaven's Halberd and Orchid Malevolence : they're not completely support items, more like semi-carry items, but they give very useful disables that you may need in some games.

If you're relly farmed you can consider some luxuries :

- Shiva's Guard : It's mainly an item for initiators who jump in the middle of the enemy team and pop this item to slow and damage them. It's great for initiating teamfights if you have a blink dagger/forcestaff. Also counters right-clickers.

- Scythe of Vyse : the ultimate item for intelligence heroes. If for some reason you are sitting on a ton of gold then don't think twice and just grab a sheepstick. The disable is completely gamechanging ; it's your best late game item. get it early if playing against evasive heroes like Anti-Mage or Storm Spirit, it really helps.

- Refresher Orb : Get it on initiators who have a game-changing ultimate with a long cooldown : Enigma, Warlock, Dark Seer, Tidehunter, Omniknight, and...yeah that's essentially it, very few supports need one.

Get those when needed :

- Observer Wards. You should buy them on every cooldown and place them, it's absolutely gamechanging. Supporting is 99% about proper warding, the rest is just details.

- Sentry Wards : to deward enemy observer wards

- Smoke of Deceit : to gank without being seen by enemy wards, or to do Roshan

- Dust of Appearance : always, always carry dust if they have even a single invisible hero.

You can make your picks from the list, and feel free to experiment. Your items won't be the same twice because it's all dependent on the game, your team, and the enemy team.

Hope this helps, cheers!



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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Hamstertamer » July 27, 2014 3:56am | Report
Wulfstan wrote:



I am pretty sure that the ethereal state gets dispelled once you start channeling Town Portal Scroll.

However, it works with Boots of Travel.


Indeed, I forgot that it doesn't work with TP scrolls, but yes it does with BoT. I'm playing Tinker too much i guess :=)
Strategy guide : Anti-pubstomper guide.
Hero guides : Spectre , Windranger and Clinkz
== Broodmother guide out! ==

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