What I'd like to see in 6.82

After the other thread about which heroes hardly get seen these days, I had a few thoughts about making those rarely seen heroes a bit more competitive. I've avoided any heroes who've had fairly major recent changes, as we may still find they're more balanced now but haven't had a fair go. I've tried wherever possible to keep the main character and playstyle of the heroes in question, and kept the changes balanced.

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Still fairly trash tier, even after recent improvements. I couldn't think of another way of changing him that kept his playstyle, but made him somewhat competitive:

Bloodrage inflicts a mini-stun at the end of it's duration. This gives Bloodseeker a potential method of breaking Town Portal Scrolls that are his biggest weakness. However, the relatively long duration of Bloodrage leads to a game of cat and mouse between the target and BS. Will you TP out if he casts it on you without Rupture? The clock is ticking...and what level has he put it to? How long til the mini-stun?

You can still escape from him, but he could also force a lot of unnecessary TP's, or have a chance of ganking properly with Rupture if he times the Bloodrage correctly.

Thirst now offers a passive, permanent move speed increase of 3/5/7/9% when levelled, with the active stacks reduced to compensate. Makes his increased movement speed a bit more reliable, like Razor or Death Prophet.

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I've taken about this a lot before, basically we want to make him a bit more useful in trilanes, and a bit less luck dependent, so in summary:

Fireblast stun time scales 1.5/1.6/1.7/1.8.
Ignite has a 50 AOE from level 1 for semi-jungling.
Multi-cast gains an active element, makes your next 1/2/3 casts automatic 2x (usual chance of 3x/4x at higher levels) for up to 10 seconds, with a 100/150/200 mana cost and 60/50/40 second CD. Aghanim's Scepter upgrade improves this further.

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There's quite a lot of work to do here. I don't think he can be made into a convincing competitive solo without a lot of changes, so I've focused on improving his early game (somewhat weakening him late game) and making him useful as a trilane support.

+2 Base Intelligence.

Purification at level 1 increased to 120 heal/damage. It's almost totally useless at level 1 atm.

Degen Aura replaced with an active single target slow. "Holy Bindings" or something. When cast slows enemy movement and attack speed by 30/35/40/45%, mana cost 70/80/90/100, cooldown 20/18/16/14, duration 2.5/3/3.5/4 seconds. However, the duration counts down at half rate while Omni is within 350 radius of the target, so would last 5/6/7/8 seconds at max.

I think this might be enough to make you consider him for a trilane, especially when you'll have Guardian Angel later on. The active slow I think is about right, it needs to be strong at lower levels to make it trilane viable, and the mana cost reasonable as he has a limited pool. It's somewhat balanced by losing the multi-target aura effect of Degen Aura later on.

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Others:

Shadow Shaman - base movement increased to 290. Hell, I'd give up some agi gain to get it to 295. He does need to be slowish to balance Shackles, but 285 is punishing. At least Crystal Maiden can get Tranquil Boots thanks to Arcane Aura, SS really has to get Arcane Boots due to his mana issues.

Warlock - rescale Upheaval to make it more viable early game. Slow rate 12/17/22/28%. Mana Cost 115/120/125/130. Suddenly opposition trilane and particular offlaners will be vulnerable to him + allies without having to put loads of points into it.

Witch Doctor - increase base armour to 2 so he's not quite so ridiculously squishy. The first stun of Paralyzing Cask increased to 2 seconds, bounces remain 1 second.

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What do you think? What changes do you like? Which don't you? Would they make you play these heroes more? Which heroes would you change, and how?

Bloodrage would still be unreliable, i like the passive thirst though.

Ogre would get TOO overpowered IMO.

Omni still would not be used.

Shaman farms better than CM, as CM is ran mostly as 5, while i like to run SS mid as a 2 or even 3 if going 2-1-2 lane setup, so he can get a blink relatively fast which kinda level up both of their gap closing potential.

Upheavel seriously needs to be buffed,I always tend to max it last,but before stats ofc.

Witch is fine as it is, his squishiness balances his insane damage potential, the stun buff would make it require no skill to cast maledict which takes away the fun.

Summing up i'd say a few of them though not entirely the same as you suggest.

Thanks for the feedback Ab,

- BS - yeah, I think giving him a reliable stun may well be too much, I'd like to see him given an unreliable mini-stun first, and see if that makes him more viable. Think it also should raise the skill ceiling a bit for him.

- Ogre - he is quite strong already, but waaaay too luck dependent to be competitive. He doesn't really offer you enough in lane or team fights to be viable at the moment. His ulty buff would still cost mana, have a short duration and only guarantee a 2x cast (not exactly gamebreaking), you could even reduce the chance of 3x/4x to compensate. Would give him more punch and presence though.

- Omni - hard to say, don't want to make him OP either.

- With you on SS, Blink Dagger does sort his mobility troubles, but that means you have to play him as a mid, where he's not especially competitive with a lot of those higher tier heroes. Really his skills fit a support role - he's already quite level dependent, but I think this might see him get picked up more. Small change anyway, he's still slow.

- Upheaval. Yup, first attempt at this. As a 1 point early game spell you could still get plenty in Shadow Word and some Fatal Bonds, and makes him potentially trilane support viable. With proper setup and chaining, this huge slow/aoe could be deadly.

- WD - I disagree. He needs a lot of farm or help from team mates to setup or use his powers properly. Cask is unreliable and luck dependent, very bad for particular situations (i.e. against 1 hero alone). He's super squishy in lane, bad health and worse armour.

He's got ok speed and hitting power, but short range. He's totally unviable for mid or offlane solo, so he needs to be trilane support material or he'll never get picked. He already needs a lot of farm for a support (Aghs/BKB really), so a few well placed buffs might make him a little more viable. His heal has been fixed, so a more useful level 1 stun and ability to trade a few hits might make him better.

I do agree he has great potential damage output, but it's so rare to be able to use it properly against a halfway competent team. And a man of your talents should be able to land Maledict anyway :)

bloodseeker needs a remake instead of making him a hero without skill synergy with 2 overpowerded spells, he is pretty badly designed.

ogre could receive some buffs yes.

ommniknight actually has really good skills, you just cant lane him anywhere, so i think that needs to be adressed the most.

shadow shaman doesnt need buffs, he is pretty damn strong and just fell off this month becouse of trends.

warlock will never be viable as a support with his current skillset, i think upheaval needs to be changed or replaced.

witch doctor can get some minor early game buffs, becouse he is only good when you are in front.


apart from the heroes you listed other badly designed heroes like sniper and drow need to change. id like sniper to become some long range disabler, he has the potential to be a really interesting hero with abilities that you actually have to aim, but right now he is just a rightclicker who does low damage.

drow needs to be changed so she isnt a clinkz without mobility.

chaos knight needs some love, after teather stun was removed there is just no reason to pick him.

I would make some changes that would nerf split pushing, in my opinion it's ruining the game, seeing team fights and skilled plays is way better than looking at rat dota.

I really want to see Bloodseeker more in competitive scene, since I actually love his gameplay (don't judge :3) The thing is.... he is well... useless lol

So yeah, I love the suggestion you made about him! So using your base idea, do you mind I create a complete one?



Bloodrage now inflicts mini stun (0.1 seconds) to enemy units for every 100 damage dealt (before magic resistance). Additionally, any enemy heroes inflicted by Bloodrage increases Thirst stack by one point (doesn't stack by thirst from the same hero)

- 5 seconds duration, 20 damage per tick and 30% damage increase
- 6 seconds duration, 25 damage per tick and 60% damage increase
- 8 seconds duration, 25 damage per tick and 90% damage increase
- 9 seconds duration, 33 damage per tick and 120% damage increase

Mana Cost: 100
Cooldown: 12/11/10/9 seconds

Modifications: Damage now scales as well as the mini stun, making this skill worth upgrading and claim its use to enemy heroes with reliable mini stun. Mana cost increased by 20 points and increasing cooldown from 12/10/8/6 to balance it up. This way, Bloodrage solves the problem of TP and put in a little bit of variations to his gameplay, as well as mind trick for enemies. You might notice that level 2 to 3 has 2 seconds increased duration and no damage per tick increase, but potentially speaking, taking the third level gives another mini stun.



Thirst now passively increases movement speed even without any hero losing HP, but have reduced amount of damage and movement speed per stack. Additionally, Thirst gives increased bonus damage and movement speed when the HP threshold goes lower than true sight vision. The speed boost and damage boost are counted as different instances, different instances of speed boost stacks diminishingly.

Passive speed boost: 3/5/7/9% movement speed
Speed boost below 50%: 4/8/12/16% movement speed
Speed boost below true sight: 3/6/9/12% movement speed
Bonus damage: 5/10/15/20
Bonus damage below true sight: 10/15/20/25
True sight threshold: 10/15/20/25

Modifications: Separate Thirst to 3 instances of buff, the passive speed boost, below 50% bonus speed and damage, and below true sight bonus speed and damage. Because of this, Bloodseeker requires more calculation before jumping into battle, but the passive speed boost will enhance his roaming capability and gives him a certainty within his many unreliability.



Rupture now has reduced initial damage, and damage per distance traveled. However, in exchange for that, the damage per distance traveled increases every 20% of HP missing. This way, it gives better synergy with Thirst that makes him more interesting to play. Additionally, if the ruptured unit receives Bloodrage, Thirst bonus damage (does not count the true sight bonus damage) from that unit is doubled when hitting that unit.

- 150 initial damage, 15% distance traveled and 3% per 20% missing HP
- 200 initial damage, 30% distance traveled and 5% per 20% missing HP
- 275 initial damage, 40% distance traveled and 8% per 20% missing HP

Range: 1000
Duration: 7/8/9
Mana Cost: 150/175/200
Cooldown: 70/60/50

Modifications: Reduced initial damage and damage per distance traveled, but gives bonus damage per 20% of target's missing HP. This way, the lower it gets the more dangerous it is. Additionally, the mana cost is reduced to compensate for the lower initial damage by a little amount (25 per level compared to 50). It also gives additional effect that doubles Thirst bonus damage when used alongside Bloodrage, thus giving better synergy and killing potential.

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I also want to see Omniknight, so yeah, here:

Base Int increased by 3 points, reduced int gain by 0.1: (20+1.7). Total at level 25 is 62.5 compared to previous one which was (17+1.8) that totaled to 62.



Purification has increased radius by 60 points (300) and cast range of 100 points (800). Additionally, this unit will receive Degen Aura of twice the level effects for 3 seconds. If used on self, the effect of Degen Aura doubled for 3 seconds

- 120 heal/damage
- 190 heal/damage
- 260 heal/damage
- 330 heal/damage

Mana Cost: 90/105/120/135
Cooldown: 10/9/8/7

Modifications: Increased radius and cast range makes it easier for him to land a damaging Purification, not to mention the mana cost reduction from 100/120/140/160 that makes it more viable on a tri-lane, especially with damage that starts with 120 damage. The amount of heal per level is reduced by 20 points (70 rather than 90), but in compensation decreases the mana usage and gives a scaling cooldown. The slow effect from Degen Aura also increases his potential in tri-lane.



Degen Aura now is capable to be used actively to increase the aura range for a short duration. The amount of slow is reduced to compensate for the additional effects. This skill doesn't stack to allies' Degen Aura

- 15% move slow, 10% attack slow.
- 20% move slow, 16% attack slow
- 25% move slow, 22% attack slow
- 30% move slow, 28% attack slow

Aura Range: 350
On Activation: 600
Duration: 6 seconds
Cooldown: 20 seconds
MP Cost: 60

Modifications: Make this skill has active effect (much like precision aura) that increases range of the aura, this way Omniknight has a more reliable slow for tri-lane purpose.

Totally agree, I hardly ever watch pro games due to this. Personally my biggest issue is with illusions, they should be nerfed so that they're not a ridiculous farming/pushing aid - certainly so that you can't take a base without fighting/risk (unless you cleverly draw them out or gank well before hand). It's not fun to watch or play illusions taking small amounts of damage off T3 towers for ages and ages until the other team/viewers curl up and die of boredom.



Took out a few where we agreed btw :)

I'd argue all 4 of his skills are actually really good:

- Free health sustain, massive heals on enemy deaths = GOOD
- Long silence with 120 damage for 80 mana...can be used late on as massive damage buff = GOOD
- Global vision of weak heroes, with true sight of very low ones...then movement/attack buffs on top = GOOD
- Strong HP Removal spell that does massive damage if the enemy moves = GOOD

There is synergy there too - chasing and then healing from enemies on low health, stop them running, stop them using abilities. I think the problem is that he can't reliably gank 1v1 like some others (hence the mini-stun), and that he's reliant on enemy errors (having low health) for much of his strength (hence give him that small passive movement increase). I think he can be tweaked into a good hero.

Omniknight - yup, that's what I was working on. Would you consider him with the changes suggested, or think he needs even more? I guess the choice is to make him into a genuine solo capable hero, or making him work as a support.

Warlock - totally disagree...I pretty much always play him as a support. He has strong skills and stats growth, he really doesn't need very much equipment to be effective - levels is probably more important. Blink Dagger? Nah. Soul Ring/ Arcane Boots yeah, it's nice, but you don't spam your spells enough to make them necessary. Tbh I'm happy with Urn of Shadows and some plain Boots of Speed. Mekansm too if possible.

Then again, I tend to play him as a dual lane support, but even then with warding. Personally I don't think he needs Aghanim's Scepter/ Refresher Orb to work - it's nice, but not that much better than what he does anyway for minimal farm. Having a decent level 1 slow would make him more viable, although he'd probably need to be teamed up with a semi-jungler 2nd support.

Tbh I don't really understand all the hate for Upheaval. You get a huge AOE, 80%+ slow that lasts up to 15 seconds - the mana cost is pretty low. The CD is very high. The only problem is you have to channel...I don't see why in a defensive 3v1 trilane that wouldn't be useful if you could get it for 1 point - it could destroy some offlaners - one allied stun while you begin channeling, enemy can't escape without transport abilities.

Drow Ranger/ Sniper...yeah I'd agree they probably need more of a full rework, I can't really see what you're supposed to do with them outside lower levels.

EDIT: Yzreel

Thanks for taking so much time to expand those suggestions :)

I think most people would agree BS needs some more love, and I'd agree with most of your ideas. I think you can't give him a reliable mini-stun though (i.e. hit for 100 damage under Bloodrage = TP break) , it'd just be too easy for him then. Heroes like Pudge can get solo kills, but they rely on skillshots to do it. BS needs some form of mini-stun that isn't necessarily straight forward to get when you want it, and can potentially be avoided or timed by the opposition so they can escape - but without it necessarily being easy for them to guess either.

Quite how you do this is definitely up for discussion - whether it's a delay on Bloodrage, a particular damage % (say if you take them past the 50% or 25% threshold while under the effects of it), on a tick or whatever. I came up with the [[Bloodrage] delay as it still gives enemies a few seconds to decide whether they want to TP out...but if they wait more than a few seconds it means BS is guaranteed to have at least 6 seconds of attack time on them where they WONT be able to tp out without getting it cancelled! This could lead to some interesting mindgames, and I think that would increase skill/fun for both players.

Oh by the way it is not "hit for 100 damage under Bloodrage, but is taking 100 damage from Bloodrage before magic resistance" It is a valid point, I myself actually leans toward the "taking them past 25% HP threshold". However, I cannot think as of why this skill would be worth leveling up (i mean, 30% auto attack damage bonus gives the enemy better chance of just wrestling it out with him). This is my best suggestion of a not-so reliable mini stun of this skill (I still prefer my initial idea though):

Bloodrage now gives mini-stun once the HP of targeted enemy unit is reduced to below 50%, if the target already has lower than 50% HP, the mini stun happens after a 5/4.5/4.25/3.75 seconds delay. Additionally, if the enemy HP falls below Thirst true sight HP threshold (10/15/20/25) the unit is muted instead of silenced. The duration, cooldown and MP cost is also rescaled to make it more balanced and worth upgrading. Additionally, the mini stun delay scaling also force the enemy to react fast and make decision even faster.

Duration: 5/6/8/9 seconds
Damage: 20
Increased damage: 30/60/90/120%
MP Cost: 100/90/90/80
Cooldown: 12/10/10/8 seconds

What do you think of this? I am also interested in making the Sniper and drow's remake, as well as Undying's rebalancing. Do you mind me posting them here? Oh, by the way I thought Porygon already made a Sniper remake (still interested to make one myself though lol)

Anytime bro,

-That's exactly the point, you cant have insane damage yet make it reliable, that's just plain cruel.
For example you have to predict the Lina/Lesh stun, you have to isolate enemies for Lesh's Tower eater/Luna's eclipse, you have to land the hook for pudge/clock.
"Luck is no excuse", one must find the gap to land cask/chain frost type spells.
Sure he lacks armor or str but he more than makes up for it in harassment value and pure badassness(if that's even a word). He has among the highest base damage at level 1 in the game, and a sick chain stun even at level 1 which is annoying yet hilarious(based on your point of view and whether you are the caster or the casted), dont even get me started on the heal at level 1, enemy focuses carry, hit the clarity turn on GOD mode.

He is mainly reliant on his team for a setup not unlike lesh/kunkka(Shadow Demon anyone?)
I can land it with some margin of error(I'm not Dendi now am I?, well no one is, maybe Excalibur with Tinker) Many heroes require setup for proper utilization of their skillset, he's not so different.

-As for SS, I like his pushing skills so I run him mid, not saying he cant support, but i prefer him mid, not unlike DP, Lycan, Pugna, Lesh(yup i would run any hero mid given the chance,just LOVE that lane), Voker.

P.S. : WALL OF THREAD, TOO MUCH EXPOSURE IS HARMFUL, WEAR SAFETY GOGGLES. OH **** SHOULDN'T I HAVE LED WITH IT?

Yzreel - ok something like that, I don't know quite what the solution is, but something that gives him a somewhat unreliable mini-stun is great.

Ab4 - I kinda agree with you...the power of cask is that isolated "solo hero and ranged creep" skillshot moment...but there are other times it just plain sucks. In a teamfight you can't necessarily wait for all the creeps to die before throwing it. Any 1v1 situation is terrible, and I'd also say it's pretty useless at level 1 - all that mana for THAT? Stops him being a viable trilane support...and as we've already agreed, he can't play anywhere else. Waiting for level 3 before you can kill in a trilane is no good.

I totally agree with you on relying on team mates for setup - if you're going to get off anything like a decent Death Ward you need help - that's fine. 2 seconds of initial stun + slow casting Maledict will barely get you any time on Death Ward 1v1.

So yeah, what I'm saying is a bit more armour for zoning (<1 is awful, 2 is still pretty poor, SS has 3), and that 2 second stun so that he can potentially kill at early levels, and is slightly less useless in a 1v1 situation.

Not big changes really, but he's almost unpickable in competitive play at the moment. With these changes he'd probably still be a bit underpowered early game, but you might consider him worth it for the potential damage later...? You'd still pretty much HAVE to pick Faceless Void/ Enigma/ Magnus or Medusa to go with him anyway...