Huskar's place in the competitive scene

Here goes nothing

In my opinion huskar can equip mek really early and get away with JUST mek and tranquil boots.

Playing in pubs and trying mek on huskar, i find that it delays satanic by quite a lot and halberd seems like 2 games away IF you havent snowballed.

Now in competitive plays, with just a mek huskar can bring down small skirmishes with the help of coordinated supporting.
Now i dont say he is core because of his weakness to physical damage without good items. His crowd control is meagre in form of Life Break, i dont even consider that slow as cc.

Considerably relying on mek, if huskar can convert ganks into kills, he can get his items and then can be played as a threat to supports late game. If his ganks went especially well, there is a possibility that he has shut down the enemy carry leaving your teams carry a breeze of a late game.

Hence my thoughts that he only irritates carries(depending on snowball or not) . If his ulti is buffed that dmg slices thru spell immunity, he can become a consistent pick.

Another thing, considering that his ganks went well, he can buy a bkb late game and benefit from the fact that carries may have burned out their bkbs.

Mek falls off late game and he sells that once he has a HoTD from gank money, or when #5 buys his. And then he can be played as a manfight guy who provides significant DoT that may become the lynchpin to bringing down the carry.
Burning Spears cant be purges afaik.
If his ulti is buffed, he can simply die to an enemy carry while chopping off his hp in half.
Early game mek, and late game martyr thats what i said. I did not have a paradoxical veiw when i said that you become a mek carrier. You ulti in, pop mek and right click the sucker. Whats wrong with that? I am in 1.8k **** tier so it might be different at pro level(not an excuse, m open to lectures in this matter) .

Imagine all that being done to a carry. Not even that , it also intimidates psychologically.

Hope this clarifies my stance on huskar.
He can be situational pick, but he aint a semi carry. Even in pro tier he needs his items like halberd and satanic and a late bkb to be even a bit effective, otherwise hes just food for the enemy team. Hence he ia not picked in pro games imo

Make him a walking ult, thats my rework to huskar.

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Off topic especially directed at any person who thinks m still trolling or in fact wasting everybody's time :

There was a time i philosophized the wrong way. Trust me it has taken a lot of effort, to take the right approach.
Atleast m not suggesting Soul Ring on him!

@ nubtrain:
Your statements are reminiscent of the vitriolic times i had pre-skip.

I may not play huskar that much but now i know how every hero works in the game.,thanks to my mentor.
And if this is a forum, i hope everyone is allowed to comment and provide inputs even if its redundant to veterans. Iam content with the progress i have made and continually strive to do so.
Its not an arguement with me anymore. I am open to any arguements that are better than mine. I wont argue moot points. Pory need not come everytime i discuss something.

I have started to think right and use my mental faculties efficiently, hence i become sensitive if someone insinuates that I am still that idiot belligerent fellow from eons past.
I can accept my idiocy, but that belligerent man has been dispensed with.
It is the last time i will bring this topic up for clarification. Anybody who thinks otherwise can choose not to respond to my post and i will respect that.

y no Tl;DR ;_;

also, can't everything you just said done by Viper?and viper got tonnes of cc and utility (constant slows huge early-mid game damage) and a move-speed and attack-speed slow that goes through BKB?.

what I mean to say is that Viper is a more viable pick than Huskar if you wanna do all that you just mentioned in your comment, and have a hero who can do something in the late game.

Also, buffing Huskar to deal damage through Black King Bar will be insanely overpowered since you are basically removing 50% of the enemy carry's health with aghanims's scepter.

now that I have put some thought into it, I think that a Veil of Discord on him should work wonders on a ganking Huskar as it greatly amps his damage output, helping him snowball out of control and it does not waste the item slot as it also amps your support/nuker's damage .

Thats what i said already man.
Huskar is a hero requiring farm amd doesnt do his job well in comparison to other heroes who can fit the draft better! Viper is a case in point!

Hence the solution to change huskar into a walking ulti.
50%damage to carry which might just be blocked by linkens is a good buff to an underutilized hero. I mean you can change it to 30% and huskar not taking damage to balance things but wont that make huskar a respectable ban?

There are better mek carriers, there are better cc providers for #4 spot, i wont personally play him as #1 2 or 3.
He is worthless without items and cant even do what supports do lategame without items.

I would love for his ulti to be buffed. Pro picks are quite like that, surgical and scientific. Huskar is not a hero that can be unpredictable. All he does is onething and i want that one thing to be done better than any other hero.

I think he needs his skills reworked but that is going onto a tangent here.

Viper and Huskar and kind of the same heroes. but there are just so much games where Viper will be useless if he doesnt dominate his lane. huskar has sort of the same problem but he is more specialised in a certain role and will still do a lot of damage since burning spearsis better from behind then neathertoxin. which is probably the most useless skill in the game if you arent in front.

in professional games Huskar actually had a

58,8% winrate

, which is 7th place after other high risk high reward heroes like ommniknight, Enigma, and Broodmother. http://www.datdota.com/heroes.php?patch=9&season=0&side=0&day_after=&month_after=&year_after=&day_before=&month_before=&year_before=
i wouldnt say he is as good as those heroes but he can be as gamechanging as ommniknight. and i think he is better then Lone Druid, who is just useless in teamfights and is only sometimes good in push strats.

i do think he needs some other heroes to buff him up. so a hero like Io Dazzle Ogre Magi Magnus is needed.
but so does Drow Ranger Medusa and phantom assasin, and those heroes can also be really good in some situations.

What if his early game is buffed? Since everyone is in agreement that Huskar has a peak in power around level 6-7, where you first get Ulti, and have high levels of Burning Spear and can basically fight anyone. You increase his attack range (Well Burning Spear range), and the range on Life Break, and maybe his Base Armour. It increases his in lane presence (Since he gets fantastic harrass), and his early game teamfight is also much stronger.

He brawls in the early game, focusing down the enemy cores. Rather than building like straight damage on him, given he still falls off in the late game, you'd get Ag's for the cooldown reduction, and then build more utility and aura's, like Assault Currais, and focus down the enemy supports, and zone them out (Or if they have a core that won't build BKB, on them) at the start of team-fights, then turn to enemy cores when BKB's run out.

He'd still be a situational pick (Since he'll still get hard countered by some picks, like Bane), but you'd be able to run him as a situational greedy Off-laner. I think.

It's better than turning him into just a walking ulti. Since even if his ulti went through BKB, I don't think I'd pick him over just better heroes in general. I'd rather capitalize on his strengths by making him a better early-mid game brawler.



I kind would take note of the fact it's only a sample size of 17 games. Even by the standards of situational picks, making an accurate conclusion from such a small smaple size is inaccurate.

Well, I also say that because I'd say the majority of those games aren't from the higher ends of competitive play. Even if it is competitive play, you can get away with a suprising amount of silly stuff in lower level competitive games.

One thing I am curious about is will Huskar see more picks/bans once Oracle gets added in captain's mode? Because it sounds like Oracle is already BFFs with Huskar.

The issue with Mekansm on Huskar is he doesn't really have the mana to be able to use it properly now - he's a strength hero with very low gain, and he may not have much need of mana in general, but Inner Vitality is expensive and important. You need level 9 (without extras) just to be able to cast both with a full pool.

I think one of the big problems with Huskar atm is people are still hung up on old builds and roles - he's simply not a carry anymore since he lost that agi/armour/damage a few patches ago. Of course, he still outputs damage, but without a massive snowball he's simply not that good against a lot of evenly farmed/levelled heroes.

He's very level dependent, and only somewhat farm dependent - that means either solo mid or maybe dual offlaner with a protective support. One thing people aren't mentioning is just how well Huskar can mess up the opposition if he gets the right lane matchup - there are many heroes he can simply destroy, which can be worth as much as having a better late game hero on the team.

He's a semi-carry - he should be there to either win the game early for you (plus soak up lots of damage and synergise with the supports), or create lots of space for a harder carry.

Build wise, he's a utility tank with some good damage potential. Basically though his job is to soak up lots of attention and throw out as much damage as he can in that time. My current build for him is something like Veil of Discord (great item on him, core now I'd say), into Armlet of Mordiggian then Aghanim's Scepter. Follow up with a BKB or Pipe if needed. No lifesteal unless you have stupid farm, almost all your damage is magical.

Your job here? Secondary initiation, hit Veil, hit Inner Vitality, Armlet, Life Break, throw spears, Life Break again 4 seconds later. Armlet + Veil actually gives you plenty of armour early on, and you can do a lot of damage like this and soak up plenty too.

Combinations - Dazzle, Oracle, Necrophos (combine your ults to insta-melt anyone without a BKB/high resistance), Abaddon, Omniknight etc.

I don't mind the fact that you're getting mek, you still have not answered how does having mek correlate with a buffed ult that goes through BKB.



With or without a mek, Huskar does very well in small skirmishes and that's where he shines the best. Why? There isn't as much damage or cc to lock him down. Same idea with anybody that focuses on small battles and ganks, this applies to Nightstalker aswell.



Yes but that does not correlate with getting Mek, you can get any other core item like BKB or Crimson Guard and that'll apply.



You present information like it's an objective truth, that's only one possible situation.



Mek doesn't fall off late game, it's still good. It's a free 200hp for both your allied heroes and creeps. Which means stronger pushes throughout the stages of the game. You don't sell it just because you have enough money for HotD, you should of just rushed it then if you were going to do that. Nor do you sell Mek when late game came around, you'd only want to sell it when you're about to be 6 slotted. That's inefficient use of items and gold, why sell an item that you can keep using? That doesn't make sense.



He doesn't have to die ESPECIALLY if his ult got buffed. That means he can focus on more survivability so he can stay alive longer. To pose a big threat and even bigger risk for the enemy team to focus you but still not die. Telling people to just jump in then die but it's ok since you ult'd someone with a subpar ult is terrible advice. You want to outplay your opponents, BKB up or anything to survive because he'll rain havoc amongest your weaker cores and supports.



This is not something someone "imagines", it either happens or not.



You clarified but it still does not make sense, your inexperience is showing.





The problem I see when I see you type is similar to someone following a build and saying that the pros do it but not put any thought to why someone builds that way. Do you know why anybody builds Mek in the first place? To make teamfights easier to survive thus win. Let's go a bit further, who should build Mek? The supports or the cores, see where I'm going with this conversation? It's also a problem that you don't see the faults in your logic especially in the comment you made around my time of 5 a.m or was it 6... I'm here to provide that discussion and challenge your thoughts further instead of just saying anything without much thought put into it when it comes to a discussion of mechanics of a certain hero.



If that's what you really want then it's good to see you actually want to progress further and I'm glad to see you want to be more serious. However you have to think before you talk especially if you don't have the necessary experience to further the discussion. If you don't know, test the idea or question but don't provide the entree but not the main course.

No one's going to ask "Why Tranquil Boots?" 8{3

Where did you get the idea that i was correlating Mekansm with his buffed ulti?
Mek still works fine on him and i told you how he plays it out as a ganker who regens off of mek and Tranquil Boots.



That can be said about any ganker and not just nightstalker. Every ganker relies that there is not much cc that shuts him down. What you said can be said of Slark, Tiny, Nyx Assassin etc.
Night Stalker doesnt have that lane harrass that Burning Spear provides. With the day/night cycle change, even in solo offlane he wont be level 6 by 4 minute mark.
So i disagree that nightstalker can be equated with huskar.

Speaking of this quote, its literally redundant of you writing it. merely saying that 1 hero has same play style like that of another hero doesnt make the initial point go bad.


Again , i said nothing in my quote that points to me correlating mek with his supposed ulti buff. Let me ask you ,how crimson guard can do better than mek in case his ulti is buffed? . And about BKB, i already have said that BKB is indeed a requisite on him, but what of it in case his ulti is buffed? is there a correlation to it?
I was talking about a hypothetic scenario where his ulti was buffed, and not correlating item choices with buff. My whole gameplay involves on getting mek because it is easy to build and builds from initial items that you buy at the start of the game, i.e. branches.



It was a subjective opinion that can change according to a situation. For example in case the carry is Phantom Lancer, who doesnt rely on BKB.
It still inhibits the enemy cores from shutting him down once they buy BKBs.



2 meks dont stack and that one free slot can go towards something else, a utility perhaps. I am not saying that this will always happen. You most probably wont be 6 slotted and mek sale doesnt benefit you, i get that.
I am stating a scenario where he has significant amount of snowball, and has converted ganks into gold. In such a case a halberd and HoTD is better than a mek(if you still have a free slot, feel free to keep mek).


Where do i say that he will ulti in and just stand there?
in case his ulti is buffed, as the case you have replied to, he Life Break in, does his burning spear damage trying to stack more charges of spear on carry. In a certain case where he does indeed die, you still have made your carry's life easier by weakening the enemy carry. If he does survive after Life Break, it is just as you said start cleaning up weaker cores and supports.
I do not say he is #1 initiator, but rather a second initiate or in some cases a first initiate where you have found a circumstance which is a beneficial tradeoff for your team( you for the life of enemy carry). Buffing his ulti makes a better impression on teammates , as they wont be hesitating to follow up.


Tell me you dont shed a tear of thought on not grouping up in case there is an enemy Faceless Void or Enigma, Magnus, Earthshaker in an enemy team( ANY 1 of them, not talking of all of them together).
If his ulti is buffed, you will think of whats gonna happen if you see him walking towards you( not that you let them see you before you initiate). The simple pick of huskar will leiterally send you into a think tank of how to kite him or draft so that his ulti is not made advantage of by the enemy team.
Thats what i meant.

All these heroes that i wrote of, they ulti in or they dont ulti in.
The may succeed or fail.
But picking them does make the enemy team think of the pain they may bring if they do succesfully land 1 single ult.


What mechanics do you want to me to explain? It is beyond me.
My previous post was to clarify how i played Huskar because you said that i dont explain his journey into the late game.

I do know why someone builds mek, thanks for explaining that. Huskar builds mek because he needs armor and some burst heal that his inner vitality doesnt provide. Also when he ganks , you may want to heal your teammates as well as yourself. If you are against Mekansm on Huskar, please elucidate in depth.
Your response to my comment can wait until the time you are comfortable to respond. I wont expect an immediate reply. I dont want anyone to be irritated just by replying to me.

I supplement my opinions with facts that make sense to me. It is your right to grill me if it doesnt make sense.
How does a greenhorn learn? By making mistakes thats how!
If by some chance i stop posting because i think it wont make sense to the vets here i should rather stop posting.

Enough with the cooking innuendos. in any and all of your posts you still havent explained what kind of dish you want to eat or how much seasoning you would like.

All these posts, would have been avoided if you simply would have said" pray tell kyphoid , how do you justify your gameplay style? and how is it same as how pros do it?.


Tranquil boots are a personal choice. I rely on the attack speed from berserkers blood
and tend to always keep huskar at less than optimum hit points.


Will try veil of discord on him. Thanks for the info.

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OFFTOPIC:
Who gave me 2 reps?
I am confused as to what i said that i deserved 2 reps?