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Theory Exercise 1 : build around a core.

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Forum » Theory Crafting » Theory Exercise 1 : build around a core. 21 posts - page 2 of 3
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Sanvitch » September 15, 2014 4:44am | Report
Smuggels wrote:

you need Mirana as a core. running her as support is not core.


True enough.

I'll simply swap Sven and Mirana's positionings around. Slightly less roaming potential as a result, but still a tri-lane with high kill potential thanks to Storm Hammer. And Mirana can work as an offlaner, even if life is a bit tough against the Jakiro.

It doesn't change things too badly up having to run the Mirana as a core, since the line-up was flexible already in who did what and how it laned. The previous was just how I felt it worked best~

Since you just can't have enough Chaos Breaker.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Pranzatelli » September 16, 2014 6:08pm | Report
I'd also put Mirana offlane
I'm gonna play off her AoE +AS buff Leap.
I'll put Ancient Apparition as my support ( Ice Vortex -> Sacred Arrow -> Cold Feet -> Starstorm)
Because of that, I'll throw Weaver on carry ( Geminate Attack + Chilling Touch, Ice Vortex + Shukuchi)
I'll put Drow Ranger mid, because she doesn't care about being silenced and can kite DP.
And finally, a Beastmaster to roam ( Primal Roar + Cold Feet)

This team has plenty of lockdown, plenty of pushing power, and very effective auto-attacks from
Chilling Touch
Leap
Inner Beast
Precision Aura
and probably Drums

Pranzatelli


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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by TheSofa » September 16, 2014 6:28pm | Report
Smuggels wrote:



pros
- high damage output
- good pick off ability
- good single target disables
- Super high kill secure on single target. (nightmare into arrow into mystic flare...too OP pls nerf)
cons
- no AoE lock down
- No pushing power
- Vulnerable to a strong aggro tri
- vulnerable to a specialised draft (death ball, split push, 4protect1)

you are surprisingly short on lock down in fact.

what would you ban to offset the negatives in your draft?

AoE lockdowns: True... does single-target stunning everyone count?

Pushing: Starstorm, Firefly, Shadowraze

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Xyrus » September 16, 2014 7:18pm | Report
Well, I only like Mirana as a Solo Safe Farmer with Romaing Supports, or in an Aggressive Tri-Lane. I kinda prefer Tanky Cores in Aggro Tri-Lanes these days though.

#1 Brewmaster Mid
#2 Mirana Solo Safe Lane
#3 Wraith King Aggressive Tri-Lane Core
#4 Ancient Apparition
#5 Skywrath Mage

The thing about Wraith King in an Aggressive Tri-Lane is that due to his Tankiness, he's not the guy you want to have to focus first, but since he's always by the Creep Wave, he can Initiate on the Safe Lane Farmer as soon as they try to go for Last Hits. Add in insane Damage from Ancient Apparition and Skywrath Mage and you have a fearsome Tri-Lane to contend with.

Brewmaster won't lose Mid easily and is almost as much of a nightmare to Initiate on as Wraith King. No matter what you throw, these 2 ensure that there'll always be a counter-attack.

Add in a Safe Lane Mirana who can Farm up and Push the Lane, even against more irritating Offlaners like Dark Seer (despite the serious lack of Counter Push). There's even Global Ganks from Moonlight Shadow, althoguh this is made a little less effective if she's Farming the Safe Lane, but Moonlight Shadow won't be necessary early on anyway.
Timminatorr wrote:

Mira, bane/SD, AA agressive trilane, batrider solo safe, the mid is hard without knowing the enemy lineup, i could say standard puck or invoker but im going to be funky and say windrunner.

Team SquishyMcSquishSquish2014 8{3

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Smuggels » September 16, 2014 7:38pm | Report
TheSofa wrote:


AoE lockdowns: True... does single-target stunning everyone count?

Pushing: Starstorm, Firefly, Shadowraze


well no it doesn't since it is all single target and you would near on pro levels off co-ordination to pull it off and even then it leaves you vulnerable because well ... Slark Dark Pact


Sacred Arrow skill dependent variable duration stun. - single target
Nightmare zoning/positioning tool - single target
Fiends Grip single target channelled meaning its a "reciprocal" ability.
Flaming Lasso single target

countered by ..... Dark Pact

no AoE lane control or team fight control.

pushing power.
yes i see what you mean but they are not considered "Pushing" abilities. they are more utility spells used for many things. yes they can push but not as well as other abilities.

firefly if used to push out a lane will leave it on cd for 40 seconds
star storm if used to push will take effectively 1/5th of miranas mana at early levels.
shadow raze would probably be the best ability out of the three to use to push. low cd low mana cost high damage.

I WILL DESTROY YOU ALL.... WITH FLUFFY BUNNIES


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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by TheSofa » September 16, 2014 7:47pm | Report
TheSofa wrote:

Mirana #1
Shadow Fiend #2
Batrider #3
Bane #4
Skywrath Mage #5

Mirana + Bane safelane

SF mid

Bat solo off

Roaming Skywrath.

Basically... Mirana and Bane can probably win their lane... considering the lockdown that they have.
Bat gets solo XP to get quick access to Flaming Lasso.
Skywrath can help SF with his lane or roam around.

Nightmare + Sacred Arrow + Mystic Flare/ Shadowraze's = Kill

Moonlight Shadow + Requiem of Souls = Lots of kills

KK, Smuggels.

Mirana solo off
Brew mid
LD Safe
Shadow Shamon+ Skywrath roam.

Initiation? Check.
Single Target? Double Check.
Escape? Check.
Push? Check.

Smuggels, do you have any comments? ;D

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Smuggels » September 16, 2014 8:09pm | Report
i like the lone druid pick against a slark solo off. i doubt he will get much farm with the harass provided by the fluffy bear of doom.

brew mid will hurt that dp, but that silence will hurt you mid game. brew will have to rekt that lane which i dont doubt he will. he is so strong atm like freaking SO STRONK!!!

mirana solo off might have trouble with harass from jakiro with liquid fire so i dont think she will get as much farm or levels BUT with a roaming sky and ss you could potentially get pick offs on him caught out infront of the lane.

ss will provide nice mid game push though he is a greedy support he will depend on kills A LOT to get up there. sky will be a nice counter to void though with es roaming you might have trouble with the zoning potential that es has and as a counter initiator he will turn your fights unless brew can get in there first.

i actually would love to see this game since it all depends on the players skill. ohhhhhh i likey!!!

I WILL DESTROY YOU ALL.... WITH FLUFFY BUNNIES


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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Unscathed » September 17, 2014 5:54am | Report
Mid: Mirana- Ganker and teamfight disabler
Safelane:
Silencer (support)- Mana burn, prevents initiations and stops those teamfight spells
Anti-Mage- Destroys the nukers and can survive the magical damage spells like Macropyre
Offlane: Dark Seer- Disrupt enemy farm and counter fat carries
Roaming: Rubick- Early roamer and ganker, disabler and counter nukes

LANES

Mirana needs to be careful in mid against a harassing Death Prophet
Silencer and Anti-Mage total dmg and mana harass so that Slark dont snowball
Dark Seer safe from Liquid Fire and disrupting enemy Faceless Void's farm
Rubick gank all lanes and help Mirana snowballs and won her lane

GANKS

Rubick is very good at positioning heroes for Sacred Arrows
Rubick is the completer of the Slark gank. No mana to escape
Mirana would be a ganking partner with Rubick. Should this succeed, the enemy cant snowball at any way

TEAMFIGHTS
Rubick positions void for arrow since with his move speed in Chronosphere he's too damn fast for an arrow to hit.
Silencer gives time to kill void or cancel the chronosphere itself. Woth Refresher Orb he is totally winning the game.
Anti-Mage totally rekt face in those spell dependent heroes.
Dark Seer totally countering those fat carries and his mates can prevent Slark or Void from escaping
Mirana is vital to further the disables in the team. Vaccuum and Telekinesis helps those arrows.

PUSH

Ion Shell and Battlefury Anti-Mage should be enough


THE GRAND PLAN (God, thats really catchy)

The big point is to secure the early game with Mirana and Rubick as gankers to give space for farming and prevent the snowballs, especially Slark. Still, the team could still win the late game with Wall of Replica and Anti-Mage. With Global Silence, Silencer could counter initiate from safe positions. Last Words are good on void after he cast all his spells, cause he only has 2. Also a grand mana burner. Anti-Mage is good against those spell dependent heroes and is very durable against the magical damage. The team has some positon messing heroes and can make for easy arrows and isolate targets for the bonus Starfall. If the plan didnt go as planned, Spell Steal is very good to counter those teamfighting spells. Though not much push, Battlefury and Ion Shell should compensate. The lineup is rather mobile, and is planned to ganking and prevents splitpushing.

So Smuggles, what do you think?
Don't Worry, Be Happy

Late credits to Janitsu for the sig

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Smuggels » September 17, 2014 6:52pm | Report
Hmmmmm

Lets see

OFFLANE:

Slark will definitely have a tough time against Curse of the Silent but early level 2 will get him Dark Pact which will dispel that. Though at a cost of mana. He still will be able to escape that lane though with even rotations by Rubick he can get away unless he is pulled well up in the lane. So lane control by Silencer will be crucial. Blink on the other hand is a great way to get away from Pounce so that’s a positive and Leap does the same. But I think unless the Slark player plays really badly then he should be able to get those levels he needs to make an impact.

Overall: I think Anti Mage will get farm and levels but Slark will also get his levels needed.

MID:

I think that this will (could) be a very passive battle. Mirana will just try to get as many last hits as possible. The big difference will be the rotations from Rubick one good night time gank will lead to first blood for Mirana but this wont stop Death Prophet too much since she requires her levels more then farm. Which she will get. In saying that though Mirana will get anough farm and levels to really make an impact early game. The Only problem I see is if Mirana goes ganking she will allow DP to get farm and levels. So its either a Lose lose for mirana or a win lose. 50-50 either way.

Overall: Mirana will come off better but wont be able to starve Death Prophet enough. She will delay DP’s online time by 3-5 minutes at most.

SAFELANE:

Jakiro will get farm through stacking camps and using Liquid Fire. His harass on Dark Seer will hurt but with Surge he will get away. Ion Shell will annoy Faceless Void a whole lot but with no follow up it won’t cause any serious damage. Mirana Rubick ganks will help and I would expect a kill on one or two of them but here is where you haven’t thought it through.

Earthshaker

He can block off Dark Seer from running and stun him. Leading to an easy kill since he is so squishy.

In mid he can counter that mid gank by blocking off the Rubick.

In top he can help out Slark with Fissure though Rubick could reposition them over it.

With Dark Seer ultimate down he can sit off and wait until there are a few illusions and then DUUUNNNKKK.

MID GAME:
Death Prophet Jakiro Earthshaker push towers.

Dark Seer counter push with Ion Shell not enough I don’t think they should be able to get all tier ones though this will provide some space for Anti Mage to farm.

I think mid game you cant really fight. Chronosphere Macropyre Exorcism is just too much to deal with even with your reductions.

LATE GAME: I think Anti mage split push is your best hope.

It’s a really Good draft but I think you need to pick up a bit more lane control. You have no stuns apart from Rubick or Mirana and Dark Seer wont provide much as you don’t have any follow up ability

Swap Silencer for a Sand King and you would really hurt and swap Anti Mage for a [[Sven and you would basically hurt so much in lane and throughout mid game.

I WILL DESTROY YOU ALL.... WITH FLUFFY BUNNIES


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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Smuggels » September 17, 2014 6:53pm | Report
Hmmmmm

Lets see

OFFLANE:

Slark will definitely have a tough time against Curse of the Silent but early level 2 will get him Dark Pact which will dispel that. Though at a cost of mana. He still will be able to escape that lane though with even rotations by Rubick he can get away unless he is pulled well up in the lane. So lane control by Silencer will be crucial. Blink on the other hand is a great way to get away from Pounce so that’s a positive and Leap does the same. But I think unless the Slark player plays really badly then he should be able to get those levels he needs to make an impact.

Overall: I think Anti Mage will get farm and levels but Slark will also get his levels needed.

MID:

I think that this will (could) be a very passive battle. Mirana will just try to get as many last hits as possible. The big difference will be the rotations from Rubick one good night time gank will lead to first blood for Mirana but this wont stop Death Prophet too much since she requires her levels more then farm. Which she will get. In saying that though Mirana will get anough farm and levels to really make an impact early game. The Only problem I see is if Mirana goes ganking she will allow DP to get farm and levels. So its either a Lose lose for mirana or a win lose. 50-50 either way.

Overall: Mirana will come off better but wont be able to starve Death Prophet enough. She will delay DP’s online time by 3-5 minutes at most.

SAFELANE:

Jakiro will get farm through stacking camps and using Liquid Fire. His harass on Dark Seer will hurt but with Surge he will get away. Ion Shell will annoy Faceless Void a whole lot but with no follow up it won’t cause any serious damage. Mirana Rubick ganks will help and I would expect a kill on one or two of them but here is where you haven’t thought it through.

Earthshaker

He can block off Dark Seer from running and stun him. Leading to an easy kill since he is so squishy.

In mid he can counter that mid gank by blocking off the Rubick.

In top he can help out Slark with Fissure though Rubick could reposition them over it.

With Dark Seer ultimate down he can sit off and wait until there are a few illusions and then DUUUNNNKKK.

MID GAME:
Death Prophet Jakiro Earthshaker push towers.

Dark Seer counter push with Ion Shell not enough I don’t think they should be able to get all tier ones though this will provide some space for Anti Mage to farm.

I think mid game you cant really fight. Chronosphere Macropyre Exorcism is just too much to deal with even with your reductions.

LATE GAME: I think Anti mage split push is your best hope.

It’s a really Good draft but I think you need to pick up a bit more lane control. You have no stuns apart from Rubick or Mirana and Dark Seer wont provide much as you don’t have any follow up ability

Swap Silencer for a Sand King and you would really hurt and swap Anti Mage for a [[Sven and you would basically hurt so much in lane and throughout mid game.

I WILL DESTROY YOU ALL.... WITH FLUFFY BUNNIES


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