Help Support Our Growing Community

DOTAFire is a community that lives to help every Dota 2 player take their game to the next level by having open access to all our tools and resources. Please consider supporting us by whitelisting us in your ad blocker!

Want to support DOTAFire with an ad-free experience? You can support us ad-free for less than $1 a month!

Go Ad-Free
Smitefire logo

Join the leading DOTA 2 community.
Create and share Hero Guides and Builds.

Create an MFN Account






Or

My own 6.84

Please review our General Rules & Guidelines before posting or commenting anywhere on DOTAFire.

Forum » Theory Crafting » My own 6.84 36 posts - page 3 of 4
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Terathiel » March 18, 2015 9:35am | Report
Overnerfed? Alright then. What if you couldn't hit Storm with targeted spells while balling, but could still AoE him?
There are two kinds of people in the world; those who can count, and those who can't.

Meme central please give me ad revenue

Terathiel
<Veteran>

Awards Showcase
Show more awards

Remarkable (49)
Posts: 1415
Steam: Save me from this meme hell
View My Blog
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Hamstertamer » March 18, 2015 9:44am | Report
It's not that it's overnerfed, it's that it's pretty questionable balancing. Because it requires you to aim AOE spells on a very fast moving target, it's very awkward design.

If you're sick of Storm balling around to dodge stuff, there's a far easier way to do this, incrase Ball Lightning's initial mana cost from 15+7% of mana pool to 15+12% of mana pool. He now needs to use tons of mana to spam it, problem solved.
Strategy guide : Anti-pubstomper guide.
Hero guides : Spectre , Windranger and Clinkz
== Broodmother guide out! ==

Hamstertamer
<Editor>

Awards Showcase
Show more awards

Memorable (89)
Posts: 2620
View My Blog
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Terathiel » March 18, 2015 9:56am | Report
The requirement to aim really well sort of fits the rest of the patch, which was intended to promote ballsy plays a bit more (hence the gold gift for stealing an Aegis and the buffs to a lot of snowballers). If it really seems so awkward I'll change it, but I kinda like the idea of the ballsiest Leshrac ever waiting to hit that one critical Split Earth... after taking the tower at 4:59, of course. MLG plays inc.
There are two kinds of people in the world; those who can count, and those who can't.

Meme central please give me ad revenue

Terathiel
<Veteran>

Awards Showcase
Show more awards

Remarkable (49)
Posts: 1415
Steam: Save me from this meme hell
View My Blog
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Dimonychan » March 18, 2015 10:23am | Report
The way I see it, he's truly awesome late game, one of the best scaling mids in the game, but somewhat lacks mana to do much early game. Sure, he can solo kill a lot of heroes, but then again so can Night Stalker, so can Ember Spirit, so can Lina, but they do not spend all of their mana pool for that, or at least one rune is sufficient for them to recover at least partially. That's not the case with Storm Spirit - he nees his mana pool to be close to full to kill stuff before Orchid Malevolence. So the later he will get it the less he can do and it wouldbe fair for a hero who scales that well.

So his main source of gold after he killed someone is clearing jungle camps. It's just crazy, he deals ~300 damage for creeps for just 70 mana on 4 sec cd! I think that's what should be nerfed. Do not let him farm in the lane so easily(really he just walks in and presses Q against most mids) and don't let him farm jungle camps/lane creepwaves so easily so he comes online later.

What can be done:

* Nerf base intelligence - less mana to span Q on lane and less base damage, as Hamster proposed.
* Up Q's mana cost - 70 mana for 140 damage on level 1? Not fair. Again, less spam in lane, and lslightly less gold from creeps later in game.
* Reduce Q's damage/make it deal less damage to creeps(which is almost the same as Q is more of a farming skill than anything else) - basically the same as above.
* Reduce Overload damage - this would be too hard of a nerf as you hurt both his farming and killing ability. I honestly don't know if only bonus damage dealt in AOE, but if it isn't, it could be done as well.

That's all I've came up so far.

Edit: oh, and btw you may consider following changes that are not relevant to Storm Spirit:

- Blink Dagger on-damage cooldown is now 5 seconds(3).
-Towers can now be denied at 5% HP(10%).

Dimonychan

Awards Showcase
Show more awards

Remarkable (43)
Posts: 1595
View My Blog
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Terathiel » March 18, 2015 10:46am | Report
Also take the Storm nerfs into account with the context of the patch. Specifically the gold rescaling on lane creeps. Storm being good lategame is fine, I have no problem with that. Unkillable I do. If you get a hero that's good lategame but can't actually farm to get there, that's terrible design. Having Storm being able to clear jungle stacks very effectively is fine, however, nerfing his lane is a necessary trade-off to reduce his snowballing potential.

-Reduce base damage
-Rescale Static Remnant damage to, perhaps, 80/140/200/260, making a value point much less attractive.
-Increase Static Remnant mana cost
-Static Remnant deals less damage to creeps

These are the options I see, because in 6.84 the lane is much more important to get a good start. The extra dosh from lane creep kills will really add up and make snowballers much more effective, which is in itself a buff to Storm and most soft carries and snowballing semicarries. Storm will still fit the meta, but he won't be crazy OP like he is now.
There are two kinds of people in the world; those who can count, and those who can't.

Meme central please give me ad revenue

Terathiel
<Veteran>

Awards Showcase
Show more awards

Remarkable (49)
Posts: 1415
Steam: Save me from this meme hell
View My Blog
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Dimonychan » March 18, 2015 1:28pm | Report
Terathiel wrote:

Also take the Storm nerfs into account with the context of the patch. Specifically the gold rescaling on lane creeps. Storm being good lategame is fine, I have no problem with that. Unkillable I do. If you get a hero that's good lategame but can't actually farm to get there, that's terrible design. Having Storm being able to clear jungle stacks very effectively is fine, however, nerfing his lane is a necessary trade-off to reduce his snowballing potential.

-Reduce base damage
-Rescale Static Remnant damage to, perhaps, 80/140/200/260, making a value point much less attractive.
-Increase Static Remnant mana cost
-Static Remnant deals less damage to creeps

These are the options I see, because in 6.84 the lane is much more important to get a good start. The extra dosh from lane creep kills will really add up and make snowballers much more effective, which is in itself a buff to Storm and most soft carries and snowballing semicarries. Storm will still fit the meta, but he won't be crazy OP like he is now.

Clinkz scales into late game, but has no way to farm up, and he farm heroes less reliably that Storm with Orchid Malevolence. Chaos Knigh is the best carry in the game in terms of boom-boom power, but also has no way to farm. I can continue.

Anyway, you're still reduicng his creep farming potential in jungle with these changes(because they are basically the same as mine :P).

Dimonychan

Awards Showcase
Show more awards

Remarkable (43)
Posts: 1595
View My Blog
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Sanvitch » March 18, 2015 3:06pm | Report
Storm Spirit's early game isn't so much to do with his abilities being amazing than the fact Soul Ring exists and gives me much more mana than he really should have at that stage of the game.

Like Soul Ring hugely increases the thins Storm Spirit does early, which meas he gets more kills, and thus begins to ball quicker.

The item is good enough on the hero to repurchase after Bloodstone after all.

Likewise, the idea of Static Remnant just being a value point nowadays isn't the case. It's a common competitive build to max Remnant and Overload first due to the extra damage, since you can burst people down without need of Electric Vortex, in part thanks to the same amount of extra effective mana Soul Ring + Power Treads gives.

So change that and edit the scaling on Ball Lightning mana cost to be minorly more harsh at low levels, and he'll be fine. Still a really good late game hero, but with weak early presence.

That's my take on him at least.

EDIT; And change it by making it always increase your maximum mana pool by 150, not so that you can get the excess in.

Since you just can't have enough Chaos Breaker.

Sanvitch


Notable (18)
Posts: 1036
View My Blog
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by R-Conqueror » March 18, 2015 3:46pm | Report
Most of that was really awesome, for some reason the one that caught me was that Dragon Knight stun buff. 2.5 sec stun plus 150 damage at lvl one is INSANEEEEE. Also, I'm tired of the current glyph system so that corrosive breath interaction would be awesome.
I got to Notable, Thanks!
Check out my carrying guide: http://www.dotafire.com/dota-2/guide/alchemist-shrugged-a-carrying-guide-8022

R-Conqueror


Remarkable (24)
Posts: 503
Steam: R-Conqueror
View My Blog
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Karazar » March 20, 2015 4:46pm | Report
Dimonychan wrote:

- Blink Dagger on-damage cooldown is now 5 seconds(3).

Phase Shift
please no
I'm bad. Very bad.
IGN: Puck

Karazar



Posts: 20
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Dimonychan » March 20, 2015 6:09pm | Report
Karazar wrote:


Phase Shift
please no

Please yes. No more Reincarnation, Primal Split, Eul's Scepter of Divinity, Phase Shift or Refraction blinkouts.

Dimonychan

Awards Showcase
Show more awards

Remarkable (43)
Posts: 1595
View My Blog

Quick Reply

Please log in or sign up to post!

DOTAFire is the place to find the perfect build guide to take your game to the next level. Learn how to play a new hero, or fine tune your favorite DotA hero’s build and strategy.

Copyright © 2019 DOTAFire | All Rights Reserved