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New Series!!! : Position Tips!

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Forum » New Player Help » New Series!!! : Position Tips! 11 posts - page 1 of 2
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Smuggels » October 7, 2015 6:10pm | Report
hey guys thought i would start new series but in the helping section this time.

basically this series is simple!

post some tips that help you with different positions or heroes!

SUPPORT



- in teamfights try to break the enemies vision of you.
- make sure that at least one transition point on the map is warded at all times.
- stack at 53 for easy and hard and 55 for medium.
- pick a hero with some form of heal if your pos 5.
- ask for help if you cat afford the basics
- always carry a TP
- stay at least 1000 Units behind whoever is farthest forward (too many times have I seen Supports hugging a Core's arse only to turn a 2-man Sonic Wave into a 4-man Sonic Wave)
- feel free to Farm Creep Waves if there is no Core around to Farm them, just remember you're underfarmed and underleveled against enemy Cores and make an easy target for them.
- being Position 5 is not an excuse for not being able to afford Boots, Courier and Wards
- if you're at risk of being killed by the other Team's Mid / Dual Offlane / Roaming Support / etc. then play it safe and stay where you cannot be Killed without the other team overcommitting (it's fine to die if you bait them into Feeding 3 Heroes to Kill you, and only you <}3 )
- stackign and pulling
When it comes to the Pulling the Small Camp, for the 1st 6 minutes of the game, the Safe Lane Creep Wave travels faster, so the time is around :11 - 14 and :41 - 44, later on, when it slows down, it's closer to :15 and :45 , but the timings can be forgiving.
When Pulling through to the Medium Camp on Radiant, you want to pull when at least 2/3 of the Camp's total HP is gone. That deosn't mean "when there's only 1 out of 3 Creeps left" as different Creeps in the Smal Camp have differing levels of HP, you have to studyup on your Small Camps to get better idea. Like Misaaki, I'm too lazy to go further in-depth on this one.
When Pulling thorugh on the Dire side, it's a little less than 2/3 of the total Camp's HP since it takes longer to Pull the Medium Camp to the Small Camp due to the increased distance to travel.
As for Stacking the Small Camp and Ancients 1st time, :53 every time. You can get awaywith :52 and :54 sometimes, but it's always best to aim for :53.
Medium and Hard Camps depend on the Creeps spawned, but it will always be between :53 and :55 the 1st time you Stack. A good rule of thumb is to count how many Creeps there are and look at their Movement Speed. Taking Medium Camps as an example, most of these Creeps move at 320, so you can Stack Centaurs at :55, however Satyr Mindstealer only have 270 Movement Speed, so stacking Satyr Camps at :53 is better.
The more Stacks there are, the more time you need to leave before Stacking, going as far as about :51 - 52 for Quad Stacked Ancients. Cutting Trees down can also affect the timing. The easiest way to learn is by playing around and practicing Stacking until it feels natural.







- Pick a self-sufficient Ranged Support if you're Position 5. Lion, Lich, Rubick, etc. can all perform well as Position 5s. You don't need a heal to be a Lane Support, you'll do a better job if you can zone out the enemy Offlaner, e.g. Heroes like Skywrath Mage, Witch Doctor, Zeus, etc.
- You have no set item timings except Animal Courier at 0:00, and Flying Courier at 3:00 if at all possible.
- No, you really don't. You get what the team needs first, then what you need yourself.
- Your item builds are always flexible. If you need a Bracer, Point Booster, Urn of Shadows or whatever cos you're too squishy, 'delay'* your Blink Dagger, Aghanim's Scepter, or whatever.
- You really can survive on Clarity potions if you need to.
*You'll probably get it sooner as you won't be dying so much
- Make sure you setup plenty of juicy farming opportunities for your cores, but also don't be afraid to Magpie unoccupied lanes if you're not needed elsewhere.






OFFLANE



- if you cant see the supports then play safe
- always block your waves
- control the lane
- rotate out once you hit 6 for a kill
- watch your positioning
- dont be afraid to buy more regen
- check the supports regen, out trade with them.


MID



- creep aggro is your friend
- high ground is your enemy
- watch out for ganks
- push lane at 45 go for rune at 52
- carry tp from minute 1 in case you can get some easy kills in another lane
- focus on your farm
- denies are very important, deny a lot
- dont be afraid to buy more regen.
- watch out for courier snipe
- ask for ganks

CARRY



- farm is all important
- communicate with your support to establish good rapport
- if no wards buy them yourself and control your vision
- farm is crucial
- practice your last hits
- ALWAYS CARRY TP
- split push is good but being dead isnt. make sure you know how far you can push.
- Learn when to Static Farm and when to Push the Lane in order to clear nearby Jungle Camps for extra CS (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ABNUSndcnI#t=03m22s)
If the enemy Offlane is too strong and your Supports too weak, use Choke Point Jungling to Farm instead, just be wary if the Offlaners leave the Lane and come for you (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWwZJmaPfCw)


comment away and ill add them all :D

I WILL DESTROY YOU ALL.... WITH FLUFFY BUNNIES


Smuggels

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Xyrus » October 8, 2015 6:26am | Report
Support:-

- stay at least 1000 Units behind whoever is farthest forward (too many times have I seen Supports hugging a Core's arse only to turn a 2-man Sonic Wave into a 4-man Sonic Wave)
- feel free to Farm Creep Waves if there is no Core around to Farm them, just remember you're underfarmed and underleveled against enemy Cores and make an easy target for them.
- being Position 5 is not an excuse for not being able to afford Boots, Courier and Wards
- if you're at risk of being killed by the other Team's Mid / Dual Offlane / Roaming Support / etc. then play it safe and stay where you cannot be Killed without the other team overcommitting (it's fine to die if you bait them into Feeding 3 Heroes to Kill you, and only you <}3 )
Smuggels wrote:

- stack at 53 for easy and hard and 55 for medium.

This ^ needs more adding:-
Xyrus wrote:

Short Version == go into a Lobby and practice until you feel comfortable Stacking Camp




When it comes to the Pulling the Small Camp, for the 1st 6 minutes of the game, the Safe Lane Creep Wave travels faster, so the time is around :11 - 14 and :41 - 44, later on, when it slows down, it's closer to :15 and :45 , but the timings can be forgiving.

When Pulling through to the Medium Camp on Radiant, you want to pull when at least 2/3 of the Camp's total HP is gone. That deosn't mean "when there's only 1 out of 3 Creeps left" as different Creeps in the Smal Camp have differing levels of HP, you have to studyup on your Small Camps to get better idea. Like Misaaki, I'm too lazy to go further in-depth on this one.

When Pulling thorugh on the Dire side, it's a little less than 2/3 of the total Camp's HP since it takes longer to Pull the Medium Camp to the Small Camp due to the increased distance to travel.

As for Stacking the Small Camp and Ancients 1st time, :53 every time. You can get awaywith :52 and :54 sometimes, but it's always best to aim for :53.

Medium and Hard Camps depend on the Creeps spawned, but it will always be between :53 and :55 the 1st time you Stack. A good rule of thumb is to count how many Creeps there are and look at their Movement Speed. Taking Medium Camps as an example, most of these Creeps move at 320, so you can Stack Centaurs at :55, however Satyr Mindstealer only have 270 Movement Speed, so stacking Satyr Camps at :53 is better.

The more Stacks there are, the more time you need to leave before Stacking, going as far as about :51 - 52 for Quad Stacked Ancients. Cutting Trees down can also affect the timing. The easiest way to learn is by playing around and practicing Stacking until it feels natural.




Edit: FINALLY #inb4Hamster 8{D

Wulfstan wrote:

Care with kobold camps. That speed aura is a *****. For the big Dire camp, you can pull at :21 or :51 and at :51 you stack it as well.


Smuggels wrote:

- pick a hero with some form of heal if your pos 5.

Pick a self-sufficient Ranged Support if you're Position 5. Lion, Lich, Rubick, etc. can all perform well as Position 5s. You don't need a heal to be a Lane Support, you'll do a better job if you can zone out the enemy Offlaner, e.g. Heroes like Skywrath Mage, Witch Doctor, Zeus, etc.






Mid:-

Smuggels wrote:

- carry tp from minute 1 in case you can get some easy kills in another lane

This ^ is fairly Situational. If both Side Lanes are 3 vs 1, then you may not be needed in your Safe Lane, and there may be no chance for you to get Kills in the Offlane. Usually you won't be much help in the Side Lanes unless the other side overcommits and Dives past the Tier 1. Maybe reword it a little:-

carry tp as soon as you feel you can get some easy kills in another lane if they overcommit
Smuggels wrote:

- focus on your farm
- denies are very important, deny a lot

These ^ might need merging together, just to emphasise the importance of getting Last Hits over Denying (some players have a bad habit of going for Denies by missing a Last Hit)






Carry:-

Learn when to Static Farm and when to Push the Lane in order to clear nearby Jungle Camps for extra CS (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ABNUSndcnI#t=03m22s)
If the enemy Offlane is too strong and your Supports too weak, use Choke Point Jungling to Farm instead, just be wary if the Offlaners leave the Lane and come for you (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWwZJmaPfCw)

EDIT: Smiggles is out of a job now 8{D :-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9gg5Jxgl1U

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by ChiChi » October 8, 2015 6:50am | Report
Nice job Smuggels! Concise tips that are specially helpfull when switching roles a lot.

Credits to Janitsu!

Ammateurs coaching channel iei! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOBsWN_45WjrRXLAWUqeyaA

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Sando » October 8, 2015 9:29am | Report
As a support:

- You have no set item timings except Animal Courier at 0:00, and Flying Courier at 3:00 if at all possible.

- No, you really don't. You get what the team needs first, then what you need yourself.

- Your item builds are always flexible. If you need a Bracer, Point Booster, Urn of Shadows or whatever cos you're too squishy, 'delay'* your Blink Dagger, Aghanim's Scepter, or whatever.

- You really can survive on Clarity potions if you need to.

*You'll probably get it sooner as you won't be dying so much

- Make sure you setup plenty of juicy farming opportunities for your cores, but also don't be afraid to Magpie unoccupied lanes if you're not needed elsewhere.

As other roles:

- You really can buy/carry detection equipment against invisible opponents. Even a good support player won't always be there with it.
A full list of my guides is here

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by caine1232 » October 8, 2015 9:41am | Report
In the offlane, you should never trade hits with supports except if you can get first blood or a kill. Even getting a kill on a support but then dying to a carry usually isn't worth it. You will lose all your regen very fast and will have to buy more or get no XP/play very safe. Meanwhile, that support isn't really losing anything except some regen.
Only trade if you are a hero that can win trades heavily in your favour, like dark seer.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Smuggels » October 8, 2015 5:03pm | Report
@ xyrus i was trying to keep the tips small and simple so people who suddenly dont play offlane can click in see some tips like " dont be afraid to buy more regen in the offlane" and get the gist of it and be able to play offlane in a game.

but since you have made such a big post i will add it :P

@caine this is kinda wrong but only partly.

you can trade in the offlane in fact you should do. if you have 8 tangoes and they have 3 and your trading with one support WHILE within XP range then thats fine. your going to force them out of lane after a while or force a rotation in from the second support (if its a trilane) if not you can now get some farm with only the carry contesting you. BUT you should not trade when you cant out regen the support OR they have back up from the carry. trading should be only thought of doing when you have vision of at least 2 and your vision circle/radius/ sight line is enough to see any movement. centuar is amazing at trading incredibly well because of the burst component. tide is as well do to damage reduction.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Wulfstan » October 8, 2015 10:31pm | Report
As support:

BE ACTIVE. You picked a hero like Skywrath Mage. Do things! Don't just "harass the offlaner" because you're Skywrath Mage.

Don't show your face around. It's fine to pop out and harass the offlaner, but as much as you can, don't show your mug. The fact that you aren't on the map makes them wonder where you are. Sort of a fear factor. Especially with heroes that are good at early ganks like: Winter Wyvern, Skywrath Mage, Mirana etc. It will make your enemies reconsider certain actions.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by masaaki14 » October 8, 2015 11:16pm | Report
unless they are just plain new, around 3k mmr they just think "oh, *insert hero* is not here, i am free to farm and do my ****"

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Cuttleboss » October 8, 2015 11:51pm | Report
First Rule of Dota, Do not talk about Dota.

But this is pretty well done, SMUGGLES.

For offlane, you may want to add some things.

- Getting a ward is important, whether for blocking the enemy pull camp, or for keeping an eye on the area where the supports will come gank you. Pester one of your supports to give you one, preferably nicely.

- The offlaner is the sacrificial hero. Remember that if they have to consistently keep multiple heroes on your one guy, it's probably good overall for your team. Works well if the enemy team can't leave you alone with their carry. (Example: Timbersaw vs Tiny)

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Xyrus » October 9, 2015 3:10am | Report
Smuggels wrote:

@ xyrus i was trying to keep the tips small and simple so people who suddenly dont play offlane can click in see some tips like " dont be afraid to buy more regen in the offlane" and get the gist of it and be able to play offlane in a game.

I tried to keep it simple too but...DOTA

P.S. Shots fired at Misaaki again 8{D

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