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Building a Hero Pool

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Forum » New Player Help » Building a Hero Pool 71 posts - page 4 of 8
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Smuggels » March 25, 2015 2:12am | Report


ill give some feedback on this one.

*lina needs a mobility item like blink forcestaff AND euls its better to go phase into euls into blink into aghs
*mid lane lina needs a booster point in fiery soul at earlier levels like lvl 5 or 4. its too good early game not too.
*i dont know what happeend but your void should have been doing very good this game but his Last hits were horrible so :P
*you could have done really well this game if you focused PA since she has quite low health early game and is easily burst down. if you hunted her more so then the others you would have allowed ur fv to come through ... even if he cant last hit.

Anteater wrote:

I'm 166 games in with a record of 84-82. I am very close to level 13, but I am going to wait 1 (maybe 2-3) more levels as there are a few more things I want to try out before I play the calibration games.


DONT

PLS

DONT

trust me you have barely scratched the surface of doto. this game is fricking massive so pls wait till you have 300 games under your belt before you do ranked. trust me you will thank me later.
Anteater wrote:

1. Is Armlet of Mordiggian a good item for Medusa if she's getting pressed from early nukes? I played a game (that didn't get scored since someone temporarily abandoned before 1st blood), and I felt that I was too easy to zone out a couple of times. A casual Point Booster seems like a smarter idea considering that it can build to better things, but that armlet could be alternative...


no, point booster is better

Anteater wrote:

5. Most of my deaths are because I stick into fights BEFORE calculating if the fight will actually work.


think > consider > question >communicate > ACT

Anteater wrote:

8. Storm Spirit is a weird hero in that you can get smashed in the early laning phase and yet still recover at an unbelievable rate.


Same with Shadow Fiend

Anteater wrote:

5. My biggest issue with playing an initiator is that I'm never able to get a good laning situation that will allow me to obtain my key item ( Blink Dagger) in time for the teamfight stage. Sometimes my laning partner is another hero that needs farm throughout, and it creates a very bad dilemma. I will bake cookies for the player that says "oh you're X hero - I'll let you build a fast blink before I jump in and take last hits".


play a hero that can initiate with out needing a core item. magnus with skewer, centuar warrunner with stampede both are incredibly strong with only a few items.

Anteater wrote:

7. I'll also try Tidehunter again. Had an awful first game, but that's because my approach was entirely incorrect. I never gave him an honest first game to begin with.


he is stupidly strong as long as you play him right. best offlaner in the game.

Anteater wrote:

10. I'm starting to notice that the game gets deeper every single day. Learning one thing shows you that there are 2-3 other concepts connected to it that now must be learned. This game feels like Tetris - you're never going to be perfect, so you strive to be the best possible considering the circumstances.


oh boy you have no idea this game is like a pit of knowledge no matter how much you think you know the more and more is shown to be not known.

welcome to Dota hahahaha

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Timminatorr » March 25, 2015 11:49am | Report
Anteater wrote:

http://www.dotabuff.com/players/46981084

I'm 166 games in with a record of 84-82. I am very close to level 13, but I am going to wait 1 (maybe 2-3) more levels as there are a few more things I want to try out before I play the calibration games.

Thoughts/Questions/Reflections:

1. Is Armlet of Mordiggian a good item for Medusa if she's getting pressed from early nukes? I played a game (that didn't get scored since someone temporarily abandoned before 1st blood), and I felt that I was too easy to zone out a couple of times. A casual Point Booster seems like a smarter idea considering that it can build to better things, but that armlet could be alternative...

2. What can I do to help my carry in games such as these: http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1344047081 - I was doing OK as Lina at mid (the PA was the other midder and we went level in the laning phase), but the PA then went places that my hero simply can't and I failed to coach up our carry into doing the right things to win the game. When ranked happens, it will be important for me to find ways to steal a few of these types of games. I think one of my big issues is that I went after their soft supports instead of directing more hate to the person that's going to tear apart the whole game.

3. It's amazing how players that are normally brainless become decent decision-makers if you keep wards on CD, ping areas of concern, and provide a kind voice. Most of the "really bad" players actually need a little encouragement because they really do want to win and play well.

4. The good news about Single Draft is it prevents you from being too hero-reliant. The bad news is that you never really build up a go-to hero (or two) like you can if you play All Pick and just spam. I avoid All Pick since it's become too stale and I don't like seeing the same heroes over and over again. I might play some more CM soon since that mode also allows you ban the Trolls/Snipers out of the game.

5. Most of my deaths are because I stick into fights BEFORE calculating if the fight will actually work.

6. Does Dark Seer receive playtime as a non-traditional support? Surge allows him to ward somewhat aggressively without wasting too much precious time, and Vacuum + Ion Shell would make laning a nightmare for a opposing dual lane (which is what I'm seeing a lot of lately). My first game with him was god-awful (our PA snowballed so my performance didn't hurt us too badly), but he's very different (in a good way) and worth giving a few more games to.

7. I actually have made better choices with Chen than I have with a lot of simpler heroes since he FORCES you plan everything and read the whole map. My mind goes into "oh-****-I-need-to-build-a-tactical-plan" mode - and I was able to avoid a number of dumb deaths because of it. Nature's Prophet and Techies also send me into this mode as well since both of those heroes also require that you are one step ahead (or you're history).

8. Storm Spirit is a weird hero in that you can get smashed in the early laning phase and yet still recover at an unbelievable rate.

Current hero pool:

Support: Vengeful Spirit, Silencer
Offlane: Bristleback, Clockwerk, Windranger
Carry: Gyrocopter, Sven

Considering: Lina, Rubick, Tinker, Dark Seer, Slark, Templar Assassin

Like smuggles said, plz wait more games before going ranked, it doesnt really add anything to your playing experience, and the more you wait and inprove the higher MMR you get, if you calibrate now its a ***** to get it up after that.

Medusa basicly gets tankyness from mana, and armlet is better on strength heroes since they get more damage out of it.
The 2 standard medusa builds are phase/treads into aquillia, yasha and then either manta for better farming speed, or skadi if you want to be really tanky so you can push with your team a bit more.

Lina is built to dominate the early game as much as possible and snowball so you can still be a manace after 30 minutes. Try to keep your farm up a bit more, and try to catch out their cores.
But it seemed that you had 2 massive liabilities in batrider and void, so dont feed to bad for losing that one.

Dark seer isnt really a great support since he needs SOOO many levels just to do his basic stuff. He needs ion shell and vacuum maxed and 1 or 2 points in surge and 2 in his ult. He is a solo offlaner that can pressure the enemy safelane with ion shell and try to kill by diving.
And if their lane is too strong you can just abandon the lane and start jungling really fast.

With tidehunter you also ideally want a solo lane, and you need to learn his limits well so you know hoe much you can pressure your opponents.
The range nerf on anchor smash hit hin pretty hard but he still a strong offlaner since hebcan easily farm stacks and people have a hard time spreading out to avoid ravage.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Sando » March 25, 2015 1:45pm | Report
5. My biggest issue with playing an initiator is that I'm never able to get a good laning situation that will allow me to obtain my key item ( Blink Dagger) in time for the teamfight stage. Sometimes my laning partner is another hero that needs farm throughout, and it creates a very bad dilemma. I will bake cookies for the player that says "oh you're X hero - I'll let you build a fast blink before I jump in and take last hits".

Quite a lot of initiators are played mid or offlane (e.g. Magnus or Tidehunter) to get faster access to farm. However, if you're a support like Earthshaker or Sand King, the jungle is your friend.

The idea is that you assist kills in both your lane, and possibly mid by roaming, and stack up those jungle camps in the meantime. If you can say triple-stack a hard camp, one Echo Slam or Sandstorm can net you 500+ gold easily, speeding your way to your dagger. You should avoid warding with these heroes where possible, but as your level you may struggle to find an understanding #5. Maybe just single ward and be as stindgy as possible with your funds until you get that blink.

And yeah DON'T CALIBRATE YET. You will regret it.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Anteater » March 30, 2015 2:58pm | Report
1. Thanks for the notes on Medusa. I pretty much never play her as the team tends to have more urgent needs.

2. My win rate has gone from floating around 46% to now floating around 51-53%. That's a good change, but I want to be in the upper 50s - which is very doable as I have friends that have made new accounts and are around 60-65% against better players.

3. When I look at other players, one of the biggest issues that I see has nothing to do with whether or not they are good with skillshots. Normally, they suffer from 2-3 minute runs of absolute inactivity after the laning phase. You can actually catch up to a game if you laned poorly by simply using every minute of down time to ward/farm/stack/rosh/rune-chase.

4. Conversely, I've also learned that if you sit off of a Slark/ Storm Spirit/semi-carry, you're going to find out about 5' later that said "straggler" now has 2 key items and is ready to kick you in the nuts. Even if you're not ready to end the game, you always have to have vision and choke off the key farming areas in your particular game.

5. I'm moving into All Pick now, and I will start to semi-spam about 4-5 heroes. I have seen around 80-85 heroes by playing Single draft - but now it's time to add some depth to my game. I want to refine my efficiency in the post-laning phase, as well work on eliminating bad decisions in the early game. My next target after that will likely be improving my very mediocre Itemization (I tend to build items that make sense on my hero, but they don't always make sense for my hero in an unusual game).

6. This is really strange, but I actually do better in the offlane with no assistance than when I DO have assistance. It's almost as if having a lane partner throws me off. I think having 1-2 extra levels and a decent creep wave equilibrium is what really helps me.

7. Adding Slark. Dirty hero, but he can play three lanes and be at least somewhat relevant for the entire game. I'm not any good with him yet, but I at least do a decent job of not dying all over the place with him. Sometimes not feeding is more important than diving for plays. It's hard to lose more than 50% of your games if you never feed (that's just statistics at this level, folks). Most of my early losses were because I was the feeder and didn't recognize it!

8. My best experience in dota so far (entire team got insta-commended): http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1359890042

9. I'm also getting to the point where I should watch 1-2 of my games to try to understand what I'm doing wrong on a more specific level. My first 10' is often really poor.

Anteater


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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Anteater » April 8, 2015 4:02pm | Report
Let's have another update:

1. Adding Visage. Randomed him once and was immediately intrigued by this hero. I spammed him a bit and I slowly started to play better and like him even more. He is NOT a good choice against an Axe, and has issues with Orchid holders ( Storm Spirit, Clinkz).

2. Nature's Prophet may not be for me. I tried him offlane last night and fed the whole game. He's so greedy and you're just not going to get the farm priority you need to come online.

3. Winter Wyvern is a great way to cope with Troll Warlord. Her movelist is designed to eat right-clickers.

4. One day I'll have to learn how to farm with heavy pressure. My biggest issue with playing a core is finding farm in a side lane where the TWO offlaners are heroes that don't really need farm OR are designed to farm you and not the creep wave. Most supports don't zone that well.

5. One of the best ways to make sure certain things are done is to just do it yourself. I despise the #5 role, but if I do it I will at least know that wards are going up and the hard carry will have a CHANCE to farm.

6. The fact that nobody runs a 3-1-1 in my unranked games is starting to bother me. I'm not going to complain about the team composition since unranked is a place to learn and joke about.

Current record 107-101. I'll enter ranked once I complete my hero pool - which is about 5-6 heroes deep. That will happen in about 30-90 games, depending on how quickly I learn. A few of my comp TF2 friends are in ranked themselves and are starting to ask about my mmr (and if I want to play ranked). I don't know enough people that do unranked games.

Current pool: Visage, Clockwerk, Slark, Silencer, Vengeful Spirit

(there are others, but the sample size is small - Lina, Gyro, Sven, etc.)

Holes: Jungler, Hard Carry, Mid

Mid is almost never open - so I'm not too worried about that. Another carry would help. I need to be a better carry anyhow. I've given myself a "first taste" of a few junglers, but I should just sit down with just ONE will be a good idea.

Jungler options would be: Enchantress, Chen, Enigma, Doom

I want some utility from my jungling hero. Enigma and Doom give you a powerful disable. The other two offer support value. I am not afraid of micro anymore.

As for a carry, here are my feelings:
- Micro is fine with me, but I don't HAVE to do it
- I don't do well with bad attack animations
- Mid-game carry is preferable since very few games ever make it past 45-50'
- Good movespeed helps - escape is a bonus
- Isn't painfully out of meta

I gave Phantom Lancer a few games. Most of those went OK. I really should consider playing Naga Siren and see how I like that as well.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Sando » April 8, 2015 4:32pm | Report
Nice post :)

4) Realise that you can't always farm well in every lane in every game. BurNing might be on 1000+ gpm but he has great supports. If you have one hard carry and 1 poor quality support against a nasty offlane, the most important thing is not to feed. Good carry plays do recovery farm well - stacking camps, ancients, etc and finding the space they need.

5) The main reason I ended up as a regular support player.

6) Don't be entirely disgruntled - no trilane is better than a bad trilane. If people don't know how to stack, pull, kill, zone and roam, then trilanes are a great way of keeping 3 of your team under-levelled.

Junglers - focus on getting to know one at a time, and their particular style of farming. Each one you add after that gets easier.

Ranked - group and solo ranked are different, play group ranked if you feel you must (and can live with having to work for a long time to get it higher), avoid solo ranked like the plague for now - all you'll end up with is the angry-tryhard version of your current skill level, and a long climb out into the next trench up.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by V-Slash » April 8, 2015 7:23pm | Report
Hi again!

I'm impressed by your learning curve, sincerely. I'm 300+ games and I read your feedbacks with attention. I assume you are replaying your own games, something I should really be doing... Anyway, would like to add my contribution for ya.

As for the jungling, I gave it a shot a while ago. The first -seconds- of the game looked really essential to get on a good momentum. Plus I had to play it either as a support pusher, or a support ganker, early game. Have you tried Lycan, or a jungling version of Nature's Prophet for a second chance?
EDIT: Purge plays Enigma = Good video! :)

And talking about midlaners, I thought Kunkka might be interesting. He has some good ganking potential like vengeful, and a good teamfight ultimate. And he's cool! Definetly no mana issue so easy to manage, and X-mark is funny. Give it a go, I don't want to leave you with my bad Bane suggestion only! :D

Finally carries... I'm afraid I can't help you. I'm not that far in my pool building.

Will be glad to read again from you guy(s!)

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Smuggels » April 8, 2015 11:36pm | Report
Anteater wrote:


1. Adding Visage. Randomed him once and was immediately intrigued by this hero. I spammed him a bit and I slowly started to play better and like him even more. He is NOT a good choice against an Axe, and has issues with Orchid holders ( Storm Spirit, Clinkz).

he is very strong early game if you find a friend to play with you consistently then dual lane with him and destroy all who come against you on Visage

2. Nature's Prophet may not be for me. I tried him offlane last night and fed the whole game. He's so greedy and you're just not going to get the farm priority you need to come online.

way to greedy i agree but try him in a ganking role. jungle for 5 minutes till dagon 1 then just rotate into lanes for kills. it provides some serious space for your team and can snowball of kills easily.

3. Winter Wyvern is a great way to cope with Troll Warlord. Her movelist is designed to eat right-clickers.

very good counter

4. One day I'll have to learn how to farm with heavy pressure. My biggest issue with playing a core is finding farm in a side lane where the TWO offlaners are heroes that don't really need farm OR are designed to farm you and not the creep wave. Most supports don't zone that well.

"find farm" this is harder then people make it out to be. if your in a tough lane ask a support to stack camps so you can recover or play super safe and wait for them to push the wave

5. One of the best ways to make sure certain things are done is to just do it yourself. I despise the #5 role, but if I do it I will at least know that wards are going up and the hard carry will have a CHANCE to farm.

i random a lot. BUT in my ranked games i basically just picked what my team needed. which was usually a support haha... most people start out on a support role and i think it works because u spend so long looking at ******ed carries doing dumb **** you then know exactly what you SHOULD be doing... reverse learning haha

6. The fact that nobody runs a 3-1-1 in my unranked games is starting to bother me. I'm not going to complain about the team composition since unranked is a place to learn and joke about.

you will hardly ever see 3-1-1 outside of high skill ranked/ pro's/captains draft

Current record 107-101. I'll enter ranked once I complete my hero pool - which is about 5-6 heroes deep. That will happen in about 30-90 games, depending on how quickly I learn. A few of my comp TF2 friends are in ranked themselves and are starting to ask about my mmr (and if I want to play ranked). I don't know enough people that do unranked games.

Current pool: Visage, Clockwerk, Slark, Silencer, Vengeful Spirit

(there are others, but the sample size is small - Lina, Gyro, Sven, etc.)

Holes: Jungler, Hard Carry, Mid

Mid is almost never open - so I'm not too worried about that. Another carry would help. I need to be a better carry anyhow. I've given myself a "first taste" of a few junglers, but I should just sit down with just ONE will be a good idea.

Jungler options would be: Enchantress, Chen, Enigma, Doom

I want some utility from my jungling hero. Enigma and Doom give you a powerful disable. The other two offer support value. I am not afraid of micro anymore.

As for a carry, here are my feelings:
- Micro is fine with me, but I don't HAVE to do it
- I don't do well with bad attack animations
- Mid-game carry is preferable since very few games ever make it past 45-50'
- Good movespeed helps - escape is a bonus
- Isn't painfully out of meta

I gave Phantom Lancer a few games. Most of those went OK. I really should consider playing Naga Siren and see how I like that as well.



keep it up:)

if you want me to look at any of your games and make a replay cast video just point one out to me and i will do :)

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Terathiel » April 9, 2015 2:29am | Report
If you're looking for a carry, try Terrorblade. He's got notable weaknesses against heavy nukers/Axe, but if the enemy team is filled with Troll Warlord, Sniper, hell, even Storm Spirit... a surprise TB pick can really throw them off. He's the 4th hardest carry in the game so easily fills one of your holes. Very micro-intensive, pushes like a monster, rats hard, and once he has Manta + Skadi (25-33 minutes) suddenly becomes very difficult to deal with.

He and Naga Siren have a lot in common, but TB is a much better fighter. Also possesses a great attack animation. Problem is, farming a TB at his highest potential tends to piss off a lot of pubs... after he's done there isn't a lot of stuff left on the map.

*Self-advertisement* There are some good guides on him around... some of them might be extremely helpful if epilepsy isn't a concern.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by TheSofa » April 9, 2015 2:54am | Report
Being trying to pick a hero pool that compliments/counters 'pub' picks and 'pub scrubs strats,' so here are a few things that I've found that are great to keep in mind if you're planning to play solo queue a lot.
  • Pick flexible heroes
  • Pick mid-game impact #1 (If you get to play #1 at all)
  • Pick kiters or people who cannot be kited
  • Pick gap-closers
  • Pick heroes that punish bad positioning
  • Pick heroes that are meant to solo-lanes, but can to with dual. (Don't really need to XP, but can survive)
  • Don't pick late-game heroes
  • Don't pick heroes that require coordination with team (Can pick if you're team is nice)
  • Don't pick Troll or Techies, or you will be flamed.

Pick flexible heroes
Heroes that are flexible allow you to plan to play core, but can transition into a support if necessary (in the case that your team-mates all pick cores.)

Suggestions: Windranger, Morphling, Lina, Nature's Prophet.

Pick mid-game impact #1

Heroes that shine in the late game really rely on their team-mates to make space for them to farm. If your team is not coordinated (like most pubs these days), I've found that you will never make it there.

Suggestions: Phantom Assassin (If you build in the correct way [hint, no Bfury]), Gyrocopter, Templar Assassin, Razor

Kiters/lots of CC

Common pub strats involve a lot of running at people, without proper disables. Therefore, if you can kite them successfully, you will eventually end up on top.

Suggestions: Lion, Shadow Shaman, Tidehunter, Drow Ranger, Viper

Pick gap-closers

Annoying heroes like Shiper stay far, far back and hit people from a distance. If you can pick heroes that close gaps, you will make their lives living hell for a good 45 min or so.

Suggestions: Queen of Pain, Puck, Morphling (Sniper hates his shotgun).

Pick heroes that punish bad positioning

Again, this is picking on the general uncoordination of the enemy team. Punish their positioning, and even the worst players will know to hit them what Magnus gets a five-man RP.

Suggestions: Magnus, Enigma, Warlock

Pick heroes that are meant to solo-lane, but can do in a dual.

There is no concept of laning if pubs. Let me tell ya. You need to survive if no one helps you, can not get starved if suddenly 3 heroes show up to your lane.

Suggestions: Queen of Pain, Brewmaster.

Thanks guys for reading my long post!

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