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Agility Carries - 30 minute battlefury!

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Forum » Theory Crafting » Agility Carries - 30 minute battlefury! 8 posts - page 1 of 1
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Pearberr » June 7, 2013 3:10pm | Report
I only started playing Dota about 6 months ago, put in about 500 games. I am still probably on the lower half of the skill bracket, probably closer to middle of the pack by now.

One of my bad habits is playing an Agility Carry such as Void, AM or Mortred and getting an awesome 5-8 minute perseverance or something crazy. Then I make some bad decisions, or 5 man ganks come my way and I end up finishing my battlefury around 30 minutes.

So here's my question, because ALL of my friends do this as well. After I buy a reasonably timed perseverance, is the only option finishing the battlefury? Or, if your farm stalls at this point, and a battlefury becomes unreasonable, what item options do these types of carries have and when should you choose them?

Wraith bands? Diffusals? Yasha's?

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Ancient Hero » June 7, 2013 3:54pm | Report
Well first off, if you wanna build a battlefury on an AGI carry, dont buy the whole perserverance. You don't really need the mana. Just get the RoH and then build to a broadsword or claymore. It depends on the hero. With heros like Mortred or void, you don't need a BF. With AM its advisable that you afk farm until you get BF and probably a manta (unless something happens that you are forced to defend). With void, if you can get good chronos off, MoM and a mid tier item like deso or another AS item. For mortred, a BF isn't necassary. It's nice but if you can't build it, go something like deso or phase, HoD and BKB. THen build to the mkb and abby blade.

Wraithband- its a good early game item to build the aquila. Just remember with aquila and basi, turn the aura off unless you wanna push the lane.

Diffusal- It's only good on a few heros that can really use the active well. PL, Riki(more for purge) and mirana.

Yasha- core on many AGI heros as it builds to the manta. Also nice on some STR heros due the the movespeed and it's builds to SnY.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Nubtrain » June 7, 2013 4:32pm | Report
Learn from those bad decisions, if you see 5 man ganks just run away and go to another lane to farm. If you really want to stay, hide somewhere far away from tier 1 tower then go back.

To answer your question, if you're really having a hard time, build some cheap affordable items and skip Battlefury. If the game passes 20 minutes and you still don't have it, you might at well go for other items like Maelstrom + Crystalys. These items build up rather easy, with Maelstrom alone, you're actually stronger than the BF build when you're under Chronosphere and that's usually the only time you'll want to fight.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by DzikaPanda » June 7, 2013 4:35pm | Report
Well, in case I have easy/free farm I always buy tango, salve, shield and 3 branches, and then I rush Ring of Health, Claymore, Broadsword and mana item as last. I skip even boots or wand, cause I got free farm and don't have to care about anything. Usually it takes about 18 minutes to finish BF, but I managed 14 minute mark today on completly free farm.

In case I don't have free farm (ganks etc.) you should buy at least boots, wand and maybe bracer to be more durable (which you can change into drum).

In both cases you must remember you're hard carry, and unless you're Spectre you shouldn't leave your farm (Spectre can ult easily into a fight to collect some last hits on enemies, which is always better than last hits on creeps). You must play safe, and master last hitting skills, thats all. Maybe some map awareness to avoid being killed in ganks.

And whats also important, always go to safe lane with some1 who knows what he should do (preferably stunner/slower to make your farm safer). And don't be afraid to leave your team mate if you both could die, cause dying is bad. Thats all.
"When game is going full ******, you can only go with it. If you start going against it, if you start going half ******, you´re ****ing done for. When Aloha decides to go middle rubick you let him, and you start buying orb of venom on invoker. That's how dota works" -n0tail

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Wulfstan » June 8, 2013 12:10am | Report
Maelstrom might actually be a cheaper alternative to Battle Fury,you can build it later into an Mjollnir,that helps(in your case, Faceless Void)by giving attack speed,and that lightning proc.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Sp12 » June 8, 2013 5:56am | Report
I would argue that you should have the gamesense to decide if you can get a bfury or not.

Like, check on your other lanes. Is your offlane getting exp? Do you have heroes with antipush?

If not a perseverance is about the same cost as a midas, and you can just go midas->damage on a lot of heroes. I've noticed in a lot of team MM games they'll give my carry player freefarm (sack offlane, no offlane) for the first ~6 minutes then bring a 3-4 man gank squad in via smoke.
Feel free to check out my guides for Spectre, Dragon Knight, Siren, Medusa, Sniper, Disruptor, or Void. They're pretty cool.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Peppo_oPaccio » June 8, 2013 6:21am | Report
I think it also depends on your farming capabilities: the last time I played Faceless Void my team fed on all the lanes and I had to stay in the jungle; even though I got killed about two times and the enemy towers were all up, I finished it in 19 minutes. We lost the game, obviously, but remember that if you can't lane there's always another reliable source of farm (though it takes more time to get gold).

Aside from that, if you can't farm well from the beginning (~5-7 minutes into the game) you might want to finish the post-core items of your Hero before the BF: Manta Style on Anti-Mage, Maelstrom/ Mjollnir (or MoM plus Crystalys, though I don't like that build) on Faceless Void or Helm of the Dominator/ Black King Bar on Phantom Assassin. Talking about the HotD, it's very useful for stacking the ancient camp and get quick farm after finishing the Battle Fury.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by jaslam » June 14, 2013 1:21am | Report
not all carries are designed to have battlefury's. what Ancient Hero said above is correct however, get the RoH first, and then everything else, with voidstone last.
The reason pro's get battlefury's on AM and Void is the farm speed - they don't just lane, they jump from neutral camp to neutral camp, and back to the lane, which they can do quickly using blink and time walk. this insanely increases your GPM, and you can do this every minute..
always remember, if you've been free farming for the last 3-5 waves, the chances are you're about to get ganked.. make sure your supports have the gank routes well warded.
Also, don't let the lane push out - only hit for last hit, and deny your creeps to slow down the rate they push forward. This should keep the waves near your tower if you're in the safe lane..

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