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2 Votes

Lifestealer - The Bane of Tanks

March 3, 2013 by drakon136
Comments: 10    |    Views: 8691    |   


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drakon136 (3) | March 3, 2013 9:30am
SourceNinja:
Have you ever tried Eye of Skadi? I never did get to that point, but it gives stats and a great slow, so...

- Yes, I have tried Eye of Skadi, and I have found that it isn't very good on Lifestealer. Unlike other carries such as Faceless Void or Troll Warlord, Lifestealer doesn't need the additional mana it gives. He also has no need for another slow when he already has Open Wounds.
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Peppo_oPaccio (70) | March 3, 2013 1:52am
drakon136 wrote:

Desolator? This item is inferior to both Assault Cuirass (reduces armor like the Desolator but even adds armor and attack speed to your team) and Skull Basher (the AS increase from Rage make it very easy to land those stuns, it passes through BKB too), so it has a lower priority: maybe as a 4th-5th "big" item.
- I had Desolator in the build with Assault Cuirass in luxury, as Lifestealer doesn't need the extra attack speed from Assault Cuirass with Mask of Madness, and Desolator already gives greater armor reduction, albeit against one target.

That makes sense, at least with Mask of Madness: I hadn't thought about that while commenting.


SourceNinja wrote:

[email protected]

Hyperstone being better than Maelstrom is arguable, to say the least. Let's look at the facts:
- Hyperstone - +55 AS; Builds into Mjollnir and Assault Cuirass;
- Maelstrom - +24 DMG; + 25 AS; Chain Lightning; Builds into Mjollnir;
As you can see, they more or less have the same effect. But Hyperstone, to be truly effective, requires another item - as you said Lifestealer lacks some sort of damage in the beggining, turning it into a more expensive item, than Maelstrom. Btw, his skill build already has tons of attack speed with Rage.

You're right, but to be honest I find the Hyperstone and the Assault Cuirass more appealing because the latter has a significantly good aura, especially in late game. The Mjollnir is good too because it gives even more damage and the ability to hit in an AoE, but it's not needed unless you face an illusion-based carry in my opinion. Still, a better item than many others.
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Gerrit1989 (1) | March 2, 2013 9:35pm
drakon136 wrote:

EDIT: Fixed, I hope. Thanks for feedback.
...
- I probably should've tested the build more before publishing the guide. I've removed Mask of Madness from the build.
...


Lol Mate, I wont comment because I dont like Lifestealer that much as a Hero, but arent you supposed to have seen the build in action before actually thinking about posting.

I could be wrong, only because when I look for a build I am looking for a tested one, even if others dont like it or it still needs improving.

Hope it all goes well for you though.
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xCO2 (72) | March 2, 2013 11:03am
SourceNinja wrote:

[email protected]

Hyperstone being better than Maelstrom is arguable, to say the least. Let's look at the facts:
- Hyperstone - +55 AS; Builds into Mjollnir and Assault Cuirass;
- Maelstrom - +24 DMG; + 25 AS; Chain Lightning; Builds into Mjollnir;
As you can see, they more or less have the same effect. But Hyperstone, to be truly effective, requires another item - as you said Lifestealer lacks some sort of damage in the beggining, turning it into a more expensive item, than Maelstrom. Btw, his skill build already has tons of attack speed with Rage.

@Drakon

Have you ever tried Eye of Skadi? I never did get to that point, but it gives stats and a great slow, so...
Regarding Maelstrom vs Hyperstone, same thing. It may vary from game to game, seeing that Dota is a situational game.


Hyperstone works out because its rushed and you lack enough attack speed for Maelstrom early, all your damage early game is percentile from your passive. It allows you to shred a lot of HP then switch targets and let your nuker/casters clean up if need be.

Also, at that early in the game you don't know what kind of resistances they'll be focusing on, whether they're building a Pipe / Straight HP or Armor.
1
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SourceNinja | March 2, 2013 10:52am
[email protected]

Hyperstone being better than Maelstrom is arguable, to say the least. Let's look at the facts:
- Hyperstone - +55 AS; Builds into Mjollnir and Assault Cuirass;
- Maelstrom - +24 DMG; + 25 AS; Chain Lightning; Builds into Mjollnir;
As you can see, they more or less have the same effect. But Hyperstone, to be truly effective, requires another item - as you said Lifestealer lacks some sort of damage in the beggining, turning it into a more expensive item, than Maelstrom. Btw, his skill build already has tons of attack speed with Rage.

@Drakon

Have you ever tried Eye of Skadi? I never did get to that point, but it gives stats and a great slow, so...
Regarding Maelstrom vs Hyperstone, same thing. It may vary from game to game, seeing that Dota is a situational game.
1
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xCO2 (72) | March 2, 2013 10:04am
Post reserved for when I read the guide.

Please remove Vanguard and Shadow Blade from the situationals though.
  • You're a strength, lifestealing hero.
  • Infest already provides gankability and escape.
1
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drakon136 (3) | March 2, 2013 9:58am
EDIT: Fixed, I hope. Thanks for feedback.

Peppo_oPaccio:
Mask of Madness? Lifestealer, as the name suggests, has already got a built-in lifesteal and his Rage already buffs his attack speed without amplifying the damage taken.
- I probably should've tested the build more before publishing the guide. I've removed Mask of Madness from the build.

Desolator? This item is inferior to both Assault Cuirass (reduces armor like the Desolator but even adds armor and attack speed to your team) and Skull Basher (the AS increase from Rage make it very easy to land those stuns, it passes through BKB too), so it has a lower priority: maybe as a 4th-5th "big" item.
- I had Desolator in the build with Assault Cuirass in luxury, as Lifestealer doesn't need the extra attack speed from Assault Cuirass with Mask of Madness, and Desolator already gives greater armor reduction, albeit against one target. But, I've added Assault Cuirass to core over Desolator, which I've put in luxury instead.

Also, what's the point in putting Shadow Blade and Vanguard between the situational items? The first one might seem a good choice, but you already have Infest to gank an unaware enemy; in fact you are a teamfight Hero, not a ganking one (enemies can just TP away when you show yourself). About the Vanguard, it's already redundant if you have either an Armlet of Mordiggian or a lifesteal item/ability, you even have both.
- Shadow Blade is listed in situational because, if you're ganking with Infest, you either need to be with an ally or near a creep, and your allies won't always be willing to come gank with you.
Vanguard, on the other hand, is to be picked up if you're getting harassed heavily in lane; you can switch over to the jungle and farm for it, then head back to lane.

Also, a quick tip: if you go in the safe lane or in a trilane (which should happen most of the time) you want to level up Rage before Feast because you don't need so much lifesteal while laning; one point is more than enough.
- You've got a good point there. I've changed both skill builds to level up Rage over Feast.

SourceNinja:
Hey Drakon,

I find it weird that you consider Hand of Midas situational and Lifestealer a "decent jungler". I tend to rush hand of midas right after the initial items and I always finish it at 7:30 / 8:00 minute mark. I recommend a level 2 gank as LS seeing that a 8 sec 70% slow should be enough to kill most heroes. Just let them push the lane then go for it.

- Hand of Midas is in situational as you should only pick it up while jungling, and Lifestealer isn't the best jungler early on. He's only a decent jungler because he has low sustainability, even with Feast, and he is quite slow clearing camps early. Hell, even Timbersaw is a better jungler early game.

Btw, Mask of Madness sucks. Seriously. You already have lifesteal and attack speed, no need to damage yourself.
- You are correct with this. As I said before, I've removed Mask of Madness from the build.

Rush midas, then treads, then armlet. Then win the game xD
Btw Skull Basher and Maelstrom are so good. I would recommend building maelstrom after armlet then getting a hyperstone then basher. ridiculous farm and killing ability
I know it's an unfinished guide, but i just thought i would give my opinion.

- I'm not really a fan of Maelstrom. A plain Hyperstone is better for the attack speed, and as Peppo said, Maelstrom's passive effect is only beneficial against illusion heroes.
1
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Peppo_oPaccio (70) | March 2, 2013 7:01am
SourceNinja wrote:

Hey Drakon,

I find it weird that you consider Hand of Midas situational and Lifestealer a "decent jungler".

Lifestealer is not meant to be a jungler, in fact I think that only the Heroes with summons ( Enigma, Chen et similia) or with continuous AoE damage ( Dark Seer, Axe...) are the ones that make them almost as good as in a lane.

In my opinion N'aix lacks some sort of damage from the beginning; also, the fact that he works very well in lanes (easy ganks, more-than-average attack damage for last hits) discourages competitive players to put him at farming neutrals.
You finish Hand of Midas in 7-8 minutes while jungling, right? Usually, if laning you can get it in 5-7 minutes (depending on your last-hit capabilities) or even less if you get a kill, but your teammate(s) have to be good at supporting. Also, a jungling Lifestealer is very passive in the early game and doesn't contribute in destroying towers and getting kills.
That's probably why he put "decent" in jungling.


Also, you talk about the Maelstrom which in my opinion is a waste (a Hyperstone is superior in many ways, especially because it costs less, gives you more AS and you can build an Assault Cuirass with it) unless there's an illusion-based Hero in the enemy team such as Phantom Lancer.
1
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SourceNinja | March 2, 2013 6:28am
Hey Drakon,

I find it weird that you consider Hand of Midas situational and Lifestealer a "decent jungler". I tend to rush hand of midas right after the initial items and I always finish it at 7:30 / 8:00 minute mark. I recommend a level 2 gank as LS seeing that a 8 sec 70% slow should be enough to kill most heroes. Just let them push the lane then go for it.
Btw, Mask of Madness sucks. Seriously. You already have lifesteal and attack speed, no need to damage yourself.
Rush midas, then treads, then armlet. Then win the game xD
Btw Skull Basher and Maelstrom are so good. I would recommend building maelstrom after armlet then getting a hyperstone then basher. ridiculous farm and killing ability
I know it's an unfinished guide, but i just thought i would give my opinion.

ill wait for the items justification to vote, but it seems okay.
1
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Peppo_oPaccio (70) | March 2, 2013 3:38am
Mask of Madness? Lifestealer, as the name suggests, has already got a built-in lifesteal and his Rage already buffs his attack speed without amplifying the damage taken.

Desolator? This item is inferior to both Assault Cuirass (reduces armor like the Desolator but even adds armor and attack speed to your team) and Skull Basher (the AS increase from Rage make it very easy to land those stuns, it passes through BKB too), so it has a lower priority: maybe as a 4th-5th "big" item.

Also, what's the point in putting Shadow Blade and Vanguard between the situational items? The first one might seem a good choice, but you already have Infest to gank an unaware enemy; in fact you are a teamfight Hero, not a ganking one (enemies can just TP away when you show yourself). About the Vanguard, it's already redundant if you have either an Armlet of Mordiggian or a lifesteal item/ability, you even have both.

Also, a quick tip: if you go in the safe lane or in a trilane (which should happen most of the time) you want to level up Rage before Feast because you don't need so much lifesteal while laning; one point is more than enough.
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