Has Faceless Void lost his throne?

A few versions ago, before TI4, I think everyone would've put Void in that top tier with Medusa and Spectre (I like to put Terrorblade up there too [Also Arc Warden, **** that guy!!!], but the big three are the ones that are a consensus) for highest carry potential. It was pretty much a fact for about as long as Dota 2 has been around.

But after looking at the massive winrate loss of Void in comp games, and my personal experience, always being underwhelmed by his late game performance, I think I can say the nerf after nerf has knocked him out of that top tier.

Like, when Chronosphere disabled passives, he didn't need a MKB, you could use that money on another butterfly or something. When Chronosphere didn't cost you a face to cast, you could buy refresher without going Aghs, or like some funky low farm build like Diffusal Manta. Plus, without his sphere, he's really not very impressive.

Yet I don't see too many people voicing thoughts this one. Do you think Void is still in the hardest tier? Or has he abdicated to the two Top Madames?

Agreed, the last nerfs knocked him out of top tier.

He is still often good in low tier pubs though since people dont know how to spread and just want to teamfight. And every game goes 40+ minutes....

I don't think Faceless Void has ever been the hardest late game carry in dota (I always considered Medusa to have that place). I mean the most OP carry, definitely. But the best late game hero in doto? Probably not.

When you had a 5 second Black Hole on an 80 second cooldown as your ult and a Refresher Orb on a 165 second cooldown...it was one of the biggest imbalances in dota history honestly. Press R twice, win game. But now that he's mostly balanced out...

I always saw Void as kind of a snowballing carry. He needs a good start. He needs to be ahead all the time otherwise he just can't kill anyone in Chronosphere. And he's a terrible, terrible comeback hero. If you're behind with Void you're pretty much out of the game honestly.

He's a momentum dependent snowball carry. Get good early farm, get pickoffs every chrono, and once you have good momentum you're unstoppable.
He's definitely not the kind of turtling carry for 1 hour games. You probably won't come back from a bad start with Void just by letting the game go late.

But true he has always been and still is a good pub hero, just like any snowballing hero that scales well into late game.

^Same goes for Spectre, heh?

^ Not exactly. Spectre IS a pretty snowball-y carry because she can get out of control at any time as soon as she hits 6...but she's also a very good comeback hero. You can lose your lane extremely hard as Spectre, you'll get back in the game with successful Haunt ganks.
A Void with no farm is completely useless because he can't kill anyone in chrono. A Spectre with no farm still has Haunt, Spectral Dagger and Desolate which means instant death to anyone who's sitting on his own.
If you get a bad start as Spectre you can comeback either by farming isolated heroes with Desolate or by turtling and letting the game go late enough.

Mmm kinda, there's no doubt he's been taken down a few pegs, but really it was necessary as people learned to abuse the combos that are possible around him. That huge AOE BKB piercing stun is still extremely strong, but he is kinda dependent on it.

I'd say Void is probably the best laner/escaper out of the 3 though, he's more useful with less farm than the others provided your team have at least some abilities that make good use of Chrono. Spectre has a terrible laning phase, and is only useful with a lot of items/lead. Medusa slightly better laning than her, more useful ult without farm, but very vulnerable to ganks, ult is also generally easier to avoid, and she takes forever to really come online.

I wouldn't write Void off completely as a comeback hero - that kind of teamfight is always useful, but he's dependent on allies to deal the damage then. That's not really the discussion here though - hardest carry? It's difficult to say, although 6 slotted these days I'd probably lean towards the other two over him.

He works as a comeback hero IF he has allies that deal damage in chrono, yes.

But I've seen wayy too much pubs play Void offlane without any synergy with chrono in their team and be essentially as useful as an offlane Anti-Mage :)

Honestly, I think Morphling is a better carry than void, simply because he actually gets to lategame without being crushed.

Shotgun so good. Even after it was nerfed.

I still rek in pubs with him, but he has lost ground in the competitive scene

Because picking void in pub is auto win. Seriously, no matter what we do, he will get farm and will wipe your team.

The Chrono
The one chrono to rule them all
The one chrono to wipe them all
The one chrono to rule the world
The one chrono to stomp them all