Diff Manta Void?

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Terathiel » November 12, 2014 10:39pm | Report
Watching an ESL replay of Na'Vi US vs Team Secret, I saw a 5th pick Medusa from Secret against Na'Vi's Void carry. The commentators remarked that there was pretty much no way Medusa would die against Na'Vi's lineup, to which one of them remarked the possibility of a Diff + Manta Void.

Naturally, I did some math for this build comparing it to the 'traditional' Void build. For the purposes of it, I didn't put a BKB in either build. The results are... surprising.

Standard Build
Mjollnir, Daedalus, Butterfly, MKB, Satanic, BoTs

Strength: 108
Agility: 139
Intelligence: 73
HP: 2202
Mana: 949
Armour: 29
Damage (Base + Raw): 177 + 243
Increased Attack Speed: 264
Attack Speed: 0.46
Orbs: Lifesteal, Mjollnir

Illusion Build
Manta Style, Diffusal Blade, Butterfly, Daedalus, Aghanim's Sceptre, BoTs

Strength: 103
Agility: 205
Intelligence: 103
HP: 2307
Mana: 1489
Armour: 33
Damage (Base + Raw): 243 + 111
Increased Attack Speed: 250
Attack Speed: 0.48
Orbs: Mana Burn
Illusion Damage: 105 (including mana burn)
Illusion Attack Speed: 0.53
_________________________

So, we all know how the standard Void build plays out: Lots of single-target damage, and the Mjollnir bounces eat the team alive. But, the Diffusal Manta Void build actually does MORE single-target damage and drains mana, which is useful against a [{Wraith King]] or Medusa. It is also less ult-reliant with purges and slows making Void much harder to kite, but has better ultimate uptime from Agh's - in addition, it can splitpush rather effectively. It all seems rather neat and I'm thinking I'll give it a go.

Thoughts?
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Smuggels » November 12, 2014 10:55pm | Report
i wonder if illusions are able to run around in chrono ... cause thats probably the biggest thing to find out.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Safecyn » November 12, 2014 10:58pm | Report
They do! Just opened up a lobby and tested it.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by mastadoom » November 12, 2014 10:59pm | Report
Smuggels wrote:

i wonder if illusions are able to run around in chrono ... cause thats probably the biggest thing to find out.


I do believe they do because they count as void, and only void gets to move in chronosphere.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Terathiel » November 12, 2014 11:00pm | Report
All units under Void's control can move in Chrono. This includes Necronomicon/HotD creeps.

No, necro Void is not a new meta :P
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Safecyn » November 12, 2014 11:01pm | Report
Hey mastadoom, just FYI, your Earthshaker link in your siggy goes to your Crystal Maiden guide.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by mastadoom » November 12, 2014 11:09pm | Report
Safecyn wrote:

Hey mastadoom, just FYI, your Earthshaker link in your siggy goes to your Crystal Maiden guide.


thanks, ill fix that

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Unscathed » November 13, 2014 1:42am | Report
Smuggels wrote:

i wonder if illusions are able to run around in chrono ... cause thats probably the biggest thing to find out.


i believe yes but not sure bout the move speed.

anyways did Navi won?
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Xyrus » November 13, 2014 7:39am | Report
The only problem with Manta Style + Diffusal is the time it takes you to Farm both Items. Faceless Void is not a good Farmer, it'll take him a while to get these. Until then, he's just a walking Ult.

Your comparison only really reflects on a 60+ minute Game, you have to think about Early, Mid and Late Game as well, you also don't consider Time Lock Damage at all.

Take the Early Game for example, with a Mask of Madness, his Farm Speed increases dramatically, strengthening his Mid-Game a bit. With 140 Damage per Time Lock Proc in Chronosphere, he can easily Solo the target of his choice with nothing but Power Treads + Mask of Madness, 130 Attack Speed can easily cause a few extra Procs over 4 seconds. Granted MoM makes you Squishy, but you can either Gank lone targets or prioritise the main source of damage on the other Team to mitigate this. It is even possible to Solo some Heroes without Chronosphere with MoM, you just have to learn to read the Situation.

On the other hand, with the Diffusal/Manta build, you have Power Treads and an Ultimate Orb/ Yasha, you won't Farm as quickly, and you'll still be nothing more than a walking Ult. 8{(

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Hamstertamer » November 13, 2014 8:18am | Report
Personally I love the split push oriented Void. I really think it's the best way to play him. Void is a terrible early teamfight hero and poeple who join teamfights early with Mask of Madness as only item are just feeding.

Going diffu-manta is actually pretty smart. Yes, it's 50 "free" bonus damage from the diffusal that goes directly to the Manta illusions. And Manta Void is really good anyways. And yes it allows Void to actually disable and pick off single heroes when Chronosphere is down, which is really awesome.

But in that build I just miss the Maelstrom/ Mjollnir for the wave clearing ability.
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