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Building a Hero Pool

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Forum » New Player Help » Building a Hero Pool 71 posts - page 1 of 8
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Anteater » February 4, 2015 8:40pm | Report
Recently I made a post on a separate thread that sort of brought this situation to light, but I realized that it was starting to derail the original thread so I started the new one.

My question is simple: How would you best complete the hero pool?

I currently have 26 games vs players and about 80-100 vs bots. (I'm still very new). I have a few favorites that I'm working on learning already, but one of my biggest problems is when I run into a situation where my favorite carry/support/mid/etc is facing a DIRECT counter that will likely smash him to pieces provided both players are evenly matched. What complicates matters even more is that there are a few heroes that can counter nearly all of my favorites, which means that I wind up picking between two pretty bad matchups if I'm not careful.

What I like in a hero:

1. If the character is an aggressive non-carry, then I'll need an escape. I almost always struggle as Silencer as I often will draw myself into a confrontation and then become trapped in a gank situation that isn't being called by my teammates. (I also have issues overextending and pushing the lane to the point where I die after a stun, as well (but that's just a lapse in judgment and not a hero-based thing.) It's not fun to start 0-5 against snowballing heroes, and as a result, ultimately losing the game for my team. Timbersaw has a nice escape mechanism that I find fun.

2. The ability to play mental games on an enemy. Techies games are brilliant for this exact reason. (They are slow with no escape, but you don't play the hero that aggressively in the laning phase anyway.)

3. Some creative license. I enjoy playing Templar Assassin at mid because of how she is able to link up her attacks in more than one way. She's very difficult to really understand, but offers so much that it is rewarding if you put in the time.

4. If nothing else holds true, I just want the hero to make me smile from time to time. I want failures to make me giggle. Certain heroes are frustrating to watch fail, others aren't - and I don't mind being spectacularly dead wrong as it's how I learn.

What I'm currently learning and and really enjoy playing as:

Carry: No clue where to even begin. I usually don't carry because 3 people are normally fighting for that role in pre-game. Knowing one would help, I guess?

Mid: Templar Assassin, Skywrath Mage

Offlane: Timbersaw, Techies

Support: There are a few I enjoy, but I'm all ears.

There are HUGE problems all four share:

1. Weakness to Mana Leak, Last Word, and any other wacky silence spells

2. They're all a bunch of mana dependents and although Templar Assassin isn't nearly as guilty as the others

3. All four need a key item or two and and FAST

4. Weakness to something that has vision uphill Night Stalker

5. Squishy Squishy Squishy and only Timbersaw can really take a hit

6. They're all somewhat difficult to get right and small mistakes can often cost you your life

Going past 8 or so would likely not be a good idea. Any ideas?

Anteater


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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by porygon361 » February 4, 2015 8:57pm | Report
Try Tusk, he's pretty versatile and tanky, and it's really fun to snowball into people even if you fail :D.


Other suggestions are:

Clockwerk - Many escape mechanisms, lots of kill potential and allows some creativity with cog placement. Also you can solo kill most supports and squishy carries early game.
Phantom Lancer - Mindgames, mindgames, mindgames and mindgames. Elusive, confusing and devastating to the enemy team. It's fun to laugh at enemies while their mana gets drained in 2 seconds after you get Diffusal Blade. You can easily carry games if you know how to play him. If they have more than 2 major AoE heroes, don't pick PL though.
Broodmother - Again, mindgames and escapes. If there is too much AoE, don't pick this hero. However, if the enemy doesn't have enough, you can finish the game by 20 minutes :D.
Nyx Assassin - A support with escapes and a disable. In the late game, his Mana Burn transforms into a powerful nuke.



Also to be fair, silences somewhat counters every hero (except for Tidehunter. Maybe you should also try him out, he's a great hero).

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Smuggels » February 4, 2015 9:16pm | Report
Anteater wrote:


1. If the character is an aggressive non-carry, then I'll need an escape. I almost always struggle as Silencer as I often will draw myself into a confrontation and then become trapped in a gank situation that isn't being called by my teammates. (I also have issues overextending and pushing the lane to the point where I die after a stun, as well (but that's just a lapse in judgment and not a hero-based thing.)


on the silencer front.

you need on of these three. forcestaff blink euls

i have around 150 games on silencer alone. top 3 :)

but the way to play him isnt like a venge or a lion its more like a Ember spirit.

try to stay close to fights but allways skirting the edges sit behind tree's or near tree's to break vision, spam curse and last word. curse has a relatively small cd so u can usually get 2-3 off in a running fight.

your super slow. but hit like a mac truck... make that work for you. try and flank the enemy but always have someone or something between you, trees, creeps, allies. and try and stay alive. go in for kills but as soon as it looks like you might die before another kill happens ... back off. you need intel stacks more then anything else and even though your teammates will get the kill its a small margin of advantage. give gold/xp to ally or be able to go late game support instead of just food. if its a carry then sure but silencer is a very important support since he can scale amazingly into the late game... try and keep that ability since if you die all the time your not going to have those stacks and hey... no late game.

next:


Pudge.... fun hard/easy/ annoying funny mind games... the only downside.... your team mates.... miss a hook and you are worse then hitler.

I WILL DESTROY YOU ALL.... WITH FLUFFY BUNNIES


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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Anteater » February 4, 2015 9:34pm | Report
I was playing Silencer at middle against a Brewmaster. It was an awful idea. I can try him as a 4 or a 5 and see what happens from there. You have some good advice on that front.

The main reason I've avoided Pudge is because there is ALWAYS someone that wants to play as him, and I see enough of him in pubs for two lifetimes.

I like Weaver and his ability to escape and confuse players, but I keep hearing that he's a very hard hero to pick up and it requires additional patience.

@porygon: All of those suggestions are at least worth a look. I'll have some time this weekend to sniff it all out :)

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Xyrus » February 5, 2015 4:48am | Report
Being able to escape, mind games and being able to use more than one predictable combination of Abilities?

The Heroes that come to mind for that are Slark, Puck, Juggernaut, Mirana, Faceless Void, Ember Spirit, Earth Spirit, Storm Spirit, Weaver, Nyx Assassin, Phantom Assassin, Spirit Breaker, Phoenix, Dark Seer, Sand King.

Choose your Hero! >8{D

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Sando » February 5, 2015 5:47am | Report
I'd probably recommend for carry the likes of Sven and Wraith King - relatively easy to use abilities, hit hard and are tanky enough to let you make some mistakes.

Personally, I'd avoid heroes who are very complex or require a lot of skill to play well, or need tons of micro/reflex. You can pick them up in due time, but now is more about learning the basics. Better to do a simple job reasonably well than something complicated badly.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by TheSofa » February 5, 2015 7:36am | Report
Oooh, Sando didn't comment on the Techies!

ON topic:

Build a balanced hero pool, but of course, you have to want to play them :P

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Anteater » February 6, 2015 9:49am | Report
Sando wrote:

I'd probably recommend for carry the likes of Sven and Wraith King - relatively easy to use abilities, hit hard and are tanky enough to let you make some mistakes.

Personally, I'd avoid heroes who are very complex or require a lot of skill to play well, or need tons of micro/reflex. You can pick them up in due time, but now is more about learning the basics. Better to do a simple job reasonably well than something complicated badly.


You're making a good point here - one that I want to ignore but probably shouldn't. I've sort of avoided junglers so far as most of them require at least decent micro and a keen understanding of when to work the jungle and when to set up or finish an early gank. In fact, I think I've tried to avoid any hero that requires more than a small amount of micro altogether while I focus on other things.

It's kind of hard when your ego wants you to undertake a certain hero because it looks cool or because of what you have seen a better player do - but I guess it could interfere with learning to play correctly.

OT: What's the whole deal with Techies?

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Sando » February 6, 2015 10:04am | Report
Ultimately it's up to you what you want to play - everyone has their own style and way of learning. The thing is early not to become too caught up on particular abilities - if you played nothing but tons of Nature's Prophet or Tinker it's very easy to get used to global mobility and then finding it really difficult to adapt to NOT having those abilities. Same with heroes who have great mana regeneration, invisibility or mobility - it can become a crutch you rely on too much.

There are some heroes who require a lot of skill and experience to play well - say Earth Spirit or Invoker - I think you might struggle to play those heroes effectively, but if you're really into them it's not necessarily a bad idea to start early and begin gaining that experience at a lower level.

The ones I'd say you really need to avoid are those that rely on a lot of co-ordination or game knowledge - say Shadow Demon or Oracle. Simply put the people around you won't have enough knowledge to exploit your moves properly even if you land them, and/or you don't understand the mechanics/ability pool enough yet to know how they work.

Say you want to learn how to play initiators - teamfights are pretty demanding in terms of timing and positioning alone, it can be quite difficult to get it right even with a relatively simple hero.

E.g. compare Tidehunter to Invoker. Tidehunter - Blink Dagger in to the right place at the right time, press R to Ravage as many people as possible. Job done. Invoker - sort out your QWEs, invoke right skills, timing and positioning, cast first spells correctly, QWEs again, which skills are you using next? Are your angles right? Cast on right targets at right time, auto-attack, work out whether you need to retreat etc. That's before you even begin to bring in active items and their usage.

Techies - I'm not a fan :).
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Anteater » February 9, 2015 8:19am | Report
I figured that I'd type up an update to keep this process a little more interactive. You guys have been awesome so far in the advice department, so I would like to continue discourse.

ADDING: Lina

I didn't enter a match wanting to play her - it was more a reaction to what else my team was choosing (they needed a versatile support with nuking abilities). It turned out to be a better experience than what I had anticipated - and I played a few more games with her afterwards.

Her combo of Euls > W(delayed) > R > Q?? is a wonderful way to pick off enemies that are isolated. She can play the 2, 4, or 5 role - which is nice in pubs where nobody knows what role they want to play.

She isn't my dream hero by any means, but she's useful and fits into a number of different team compositions. She doesn't really have an escape - which kinda sucks - but that's not really the point of her existence. Not having a fussy ability list can be a really nice benefit in "odd" fights.

An example of what I like about her simplicity: Instead of saying in mic "I'm going to try to use my abilities that I CAN use to pick off an enemy", it's "I know they don't have a sentry up, so I bought smoke with spare cash and we're going to take the jungle route and blow up 3 bad guys that are standing around where their T1 mid tower used to be".

I was sorely mistaken in thinking that "creativity" was something that only certain heroes had. There are a few "boring" heroes that are anything BUT boring if they are linked with the correct push/lane partners and the certain items.

A NOTE ABOUT Techies:

I love this hero to bits, but people seem to have no clue how to play off of one or have the patience needed to do it even 25% correctly. I don't find good lineups for Techies to play in.

ADDING Razor:

Another example of a situation in which a certain type of hero was needed - so my hand was a bit forced. Another example of something that went a bit better than expected.

We needed an off-laner that could harass the hell out of the opponent AND win last-hits in a tense situation. Razor's version of an escape is just his outrageous move speed tied in with Phase Boots or Boots of Travel. It seemed to be more than enough in most situations - I only died twice in 38 minutes of play.

I never could seem to finish opponents - although I did help win a few fights (had a ton of assists that game) with Q and W (and maybe 1 good ult lmao). Razor does not miss denies and last hits - which means you're never under-farmed heading into the mid-game. He's made of paper - but as long as you're not stupid and let your tank/initiator start the fight then you're okay.


Whenever I go for a hero that I "want" to play, things go sour. Whenever I go for a hero that I think "fits" (I perceive that we have a massive need for this hero), then things go better than I would have ever hoped for.

So yeah, I added two heroes that in no way fit "has an escape" or "is creative on his own".


ADDING: Rubick

(Note: I only play him if I know what they're holding in their spell list and how to *roughly* use it)

Creativity :D. Everything Rubick has is not only useful, but is also extremely productive and links in well with a wide variety of heroes. It's actually not that bad to play him in low level games as enemies don't hide spells properly (I was able to steal Ghost Ship from Kunkka TWICE in a 10 minute timeframe). I'm not near the stage where I can consistently link in stolen spells with the actions of teammates and active items - but that takes time and experience (and everyone who plays him must learn it). He's a 4 that COULD play a 5 if need be.


1:

2: Templar Assassin, Skywrath Mage, Lina, Razor

3: Timbersaw, Razor

4: Lina, Skywrath Mage, Rubick

5: Lina, Skywrath Mage, Rubick


Saving for later: Techies

What I did not like playing: Ember Spirit, Earth Spirit, Wraith King, Meepo, and a few others.

What I've tried - and will look at some more: Ancient Apparition, Drow Ranger, Morphling

Morphling is very interesting. I seem to do a better job with managing the STR-AGI shifts than I do with using items to cue in his abilities. There is a lot to put together here, but it doesn't feel confusing like Meepo or Ember Spirit.

AA has no escape, but can setup teamfights and has one of the most fun ults to use in the game. Challenging, but not ridiculous.

Drow is overplayed, but useful. Positioning and timing are not THAT easy - bad play will result in you feeding. She can be picked off far easier than a lot of other carries and she MUST win her lane (and the lion's share of farm along with it).

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