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8 Votes

Pseudo Quas-Wex Invoker!

June 22, 2013 by Garret
Comments: 15    |    Views: 29435    |   

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Kyo-X | July 19, 2015 10:11am
InTheDarkness | June 25, 2013 7:39am
Strange guide. Yes, if you'll get all these items, it's gonna work, no problem with that. Somehow with QW build you want to get so much farm that it's almost impossible for a typical carry in a single game until 45-50th minute mark... Skadi, Monkey King Bar, Mjollnir, Aghanim's Scepter, Bloodstone - that's about 30k of pure farmed gold. Have some thoughts about all of it though:

1. You're not going to get Bloodstone on Invoker. He's mana dependent, but not that much, definitely. His skills are not spammable.
2. Drums of Endurance are not really a core anymore. I think, never truly been, but people think otherwise. Want to get speed burst from that item? Get Eul's Scepter of Divinity first! Gives you mana regen you need, speed you need, skill you need. Better in every way possible.
3. Dual lane is not good for Invoker unless you are definitely sure that this lane is gonna fail a lot against you, and you're gonna get fed. Really fed. Invoker is punished significantly for EXP loss, especially Wex, because to pull off these Tornado-> EMP combos effectively, you need fast levels of Wex. Underleveled Invoker equals useless one.
4. Shadow Blade is NOT a viable choice. If you really want to buy this item, go play your favorite Drow Ranger.
5. Heart of Tarrasque is nothing but money waste. Really. Invoker is not a tank, and positioning for throwing spells for him is far away from teamfight epicenter. If you're getting close, you're doing something wrong. Use to abuse his long range.
6. You don't need your really early Aghanim's Scepter. Get it after Phase Boots and Eul's Scepter of Divinity - really better that way, because without mana regen and a proper movement speed your mobility sucks - you just can't land these spells properly, and you run out of mana in a single spell combo. What's the point in having a possibility to throw down all these spells if your mana pool is so low? And, btw, until you get some points in Exort, all you need is qqw, www, qqq, wwq. Maybe qqe, but in early you won't have mana for it. Kinda waste of potential with early Aghanim's Scepter - other spells are useless as hell.
7. If you have a team to play with - or at least, couple of friends, Nyx Assassin is not much of a threat - wards are your solution. If you're with him on the middle lane, outlaning him is not a problem with Invoker. As well as Anti-Mage - he's not a counter to Invoker, he's just one of those annoying heroes tricky to play against. Remember that Sun Strike deals pure damage when you're fighting him.
8. Disagreed with "low survavibility in teamfights". QQW, WWQ, QWE, QQE, Eul's Scepter of Divinity, Force Staff, etc. This hero is the hardest one to kill in a teamfight if played right.
9. Autoattack builds don't seem right to me - Invoker is a spellcaster, and wasting all that potential for an attempt to outkill your actual carry is not good. That works hardly, and should be attempted only if you don't have good carry at all - like it's All Random, 4 supports, and Invoker. Any real carry does it way better, and Alacrity on him is better than on Invoker.
10. I have my own opinion on how QW should be played - because its mana draining power vanishes away after 2 Arcane Boots in the opposite team, that's why after 5th Wex point I usually start maxing Exort. Full item and SO justification are in my guide. It's about QE Invoker, but there is one chapter about that hybrid build I'm talking about.

P.S. Try to add some colors and item descriptions to your guide - just like I did in this post. Looks really better. Your guide is pretty hard to read.
Garret (1) | June 24, 2013 6:56am
Honestly Eranok, I don't like typical builds on anything (except naix, because that's just too much fun). That's why I build my KotL damage items, and a crystalys for my Enchantress (yes, really). My builds are not the best ones, but it's more fun! My Invoker build is uncommon, yes, but just try it sometimes, beating the **** out of traxa is just fun. I still play QW a bit if my team needs it, or pure exort if my stranges feel like having more kills.
EDIT: speaking of carry that arrives to late - Magina? :P
Eranok | June 23, 2013 8:22pm
Garret, dont you believe that something hybrid has disadvantages ? I think it is less damage per mana point (or spell cast) efficient, and less fitting to a team composition.
I understand that for more survivability and utility, you want to wex a bit at start, but your fire spirit will come so late that their pushing effectiveness will fade, and your nuking combos wont be useful before very late game.

Some months ago, I played a top 3 french team. They pwned us in 20 min. Most competitive games are really short, and if you dont specialize in something and do it efficiently quite fast, your usefulness will be quickly limited.

Oh I see some logic... QW invoker might be a more fitting autoattack carry than a QE / Full E, which is pure spell nuke. Ok, but your early - mid game will be a hell. No point in exort means hard lasthistting, hard to get kills, hard to farm... (thats why hes "supposed" to support).. and you get your aghanim and eul? Damage items only much later ? Well in this case, I would completely forget about aghs/euls, and go mkb/mjol etc much earlier.

I feel like you wanna do everything at once, and u might end as a support lacking support items or a carry that arrives too late in the game..
wells235 (1) | June 22, 2013 12:22pm
I like the way you built a QW Invoker with a twist. With a build like this you are always going to have detractors stuck in their ways, who wouldn't change their mind until Dendi pulls it off. I think it could work in the right lineups. Thanks for the effort.
Hutska35 (1) | June 22, 2013 10:55am
Nice guide, but I didn't understand why this guide is so low on voting.
Garret (1) | June 22, 2013 9:07am
This goes to eranok and peppe;
I know QW buys something different than I listed here, I used to play QW. However, this build is not QW purely, but only partially. Beginning with QW for mobility, disable and regen, later on goind more into EW though. So I think the damage items suit it way more than for pure QW. Also, my intention wasn't to publish a QW build, which was here many times, but something new, which (at least how far as i know) wasn't here, or at least not many times. There's no point in making a build that already is here. However, thanks for the feedback :)
Eranok | June 22, 2013 5:22am
Oh god. I just disagree with every mention of QW invoker being a nuker or a high damage output in your guide.

- Full exort, Eul into sunstrike/meteor and def blast IS a nuking invoker. Add an ethereal blade in it to instakill targets.
- QW invoker is a disabler / team fighter / durable / maybe support. There is a chance that you will keep that role even in late-game unless you got enough farm to semi-carry. Playing a QW invoker and taking kills in competitive games is quite wrong, let them for the hard carry, since either he will have a bigger impact in mid game, since you focus on disables, or lategame if hes a real turtle (like void).

So i do not agree with your eul core item. Its for the fullexort only, and quas-exort sometimes. Force staff is much more important, as well as aghanim.
All the BKB / orchid/skadi stuff is more situational than optional. If you happened to get a lot of kills, and somehow couldnt let the hardcarry take them, then you can turn into the alacrity lategame dpser.

As peppo just said, if you managed your QW nicely, you should end up drums, maybe vyse etc.

Well what I said is only valid for QW invoker...
Peppo_oPaccio (70) | June 22, 2013 3:12am
I'm happy to see a new Quas- Wex guide as I can't stand all those QE Invokers at all: I play a lot of QW, it needs some improvements in my opinion.

The starting items are a bit outdated, but they still do the job I guess. Still, I prefer a Null Talisman with two Iron Branches if my supports can give me a Tango or just Null and Tango if they can't. Talking about the Force Staff, the faster you get it the more efficient you are: after level 7 you're going to gank consistently; a Tornado + EMP + Cold Snap combo will most likely burn all your mana and, without a Bottle, you would be forced to go back to base. The Force Staff gives you a lot of mana and adds more regen that stacks with Quas. Also, last time I saw a competitive Invoker game that guy rushed the Staff straight after Boots of Speed: I've never done so, but if I were up against a passive mid laner ( Drow Ranger, Sniper, Morphling and all those pub mids) I would totally do that.

The Drum of Endurance is a nice addition but, unless you're struggling to get kills, I think a Bracer is enough as a pre-Agh's item. Also, I personally don't like Eul's Scepter of Divinity on QW because it's usually picked to land Sunstrikes more effectively and you wouldn't use them until level 19-20 at least. A Drum of Endurance + Force Staff duo is enough to keep your mana high until the late game, but I usually take a casual Void Stone before Aghanim's Scepter as I rarely complete the Drums.

Talking about the late game items, I think a Scythe of Vyse is a lot more gamebreaking than damage items; sometimes I find myself picking up a BKB/Linken's if the enemies have some dangerous spells or ultimates that go trough BKB, too. The Eye of Skadi is nice, but I've never tried the other two and I am never going to do so, unless my team needs an MKB to kill some evasive enemies and our carry is behind in farm. Oh, the Refresher Orb is pretty common, too.
Miluju te Tadeasi Moravce | June 22, 2013 1:07am
Well, I love u after this guide bro. You are my hero! There is only one thing i want to do with you! Put my ice wall into your tornado!
Thanks for this guide...
Garret (1) | June 21, 2013 11:53pm
zGKrom wrote:

Get used to the Insert skill/item/hero name here and you'll get awsome looking guides, also try and make them look more appealing, I mean it gives more pleasure to the eye, something like pros and cons.

I will be working on it, thanks.
samukobo (28) | June 21, 2013 10:23pm
Force staff is really good, yes but I doubt it being core. I mean why would you get it? You can just walk up to stuff anyway with this QW build and the 600 range isn't that much even when considering it ignores unpassable terrain.

I don't get force staff on him generally, I find Euls to be more effective, and the item build for me is just like this guide, excluding the drum and the late game dps items. Adding refresher is definitely good, it could turn a game around if you can fire off 1 tornado, 2 meteors and 2 blasts.
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