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Lineups utilising pudge

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Forum » Theory Crafting » Lineups utilising pudge 20 posts - page 2 of 2

Poll Question:


Pudge on a real game/competitive
NEVER
ALWAYS
Situational
^Above option is going to get upvoted like hell
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Xyrus » December 6, 2014 4:22am | Report
As always, the correct answer for any Hero pick is "Situational", a.k.a "Above option is going to get upvoted like hell"

http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1046103216




Can't find an english version of the video, you'll just have to buy the ticket 8{3




It doesn't happen often, but sometimes a Pudge pick works. If you listen to the English commentary, they talk about how Pudge is played in competetive these days shortly after he's picked up in the Draft.

Never underestimate how OP being able to pull Heroes out of Position can be! <}3
Unscathed wrote:

Sando, could you lists few heroes that pudge can fight in mid?

There aren't many tbh, only weak Laners lose to Pudge.

He's better off as a Roamer.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Hamstertamer » December 6, 2014 4:35am | Report
Well Pudge does well against squishy heroes with no escape mechanisms, so he would be an OK pick against Templar Assassin, Shadow Fiend, Phantom Assassin, Zeus, Tinker or Pugna.

He is essentially useless against heroes with escapes before he hits level 6 (and even then he's not that good), and he is completely and utterly useless against tanky heroes ( Brewmaster for example owns him so hard it's not even funny)

Xyrus wrote:

Never underestimate how OP being able to pull Heroes out of Position can be! <}3


Well it definitely is, but Batrider or Vengeful Spirit can do that just as well if not better and they are not hogging mid lane like the typical midorfeed pub Pudge.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Unscathed » December 6, 2014 4:41am | Report
Pudge i think can snowball crazy, get aghanims, and owns early-late

Though he will lost damage output or gets BKB'ed, one should not underestimate his disabling powers...

Because the utilities went through bkb. Hook, dismember, get teammate, ez kill.

And only 30 sec cooldown
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Sando » December 6, 2014 5:07am | Report
Pudge does fine against most other melee heroes who might mid (e.g. Tiny, Night Stalker, etc) - both of you are unlikely to kill the other one, but you can at least get some hits. Brewmaster is horrible though, and Dragon Knight can be somewhat problematic too.

He CAN do well against ranged mids who don't have some method of getting away if he hooks them successfully - e.g. Tinker, Shadow Fiend, Death Prophet, Zeus, possibly even Razor, etc. They don't have escapes, slows, or stuns, so you can Rot them down if you Meat Hook them.

The BIG problem with these matchups is they depend so heavily on you killing them - and any smart player will make that hard for you. You either need the right rune, ganks from your supports, or a really great Hook...otherwise they'll gradually harass you to death and gain enough equipment advantage not to be scared of you too much. Generally you need to kill them relatively early too, gaining the XP advantage that will give you level 6 where you can really mess them up without them getting the chance to unload their nukes in your face.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Timminatorr » December 6, 2014 6:58am | Report
one thing that everyone is forgetting, Pudge doesnt need to win mid, he is not built for that. he is meant to sit there getting quick XP and a small amount of farm so he can roam and find kills.


he is pretty good at disrupting pushes by isolating a crucial hero, and he is good situationally. but has one trait that can make him pretty useless in a lot of games, HE FARMS SO LITTLE AND SLOW. you should pretty much be aiming for a blink/force followed up by something like BKB along with some small items like urn, because that is all you will get except if you are stomping.
in that regard he is kinda like other situational mid's like NYX, but he has an always effective stun and counters some heroes really well.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by KoDyAbAbA » December 6, 2014 9:30am | Report
Nyx Assassin is actually a serial rapist who just doesn't get picked much.His late game is MUCH MUCH better than that of Pudge.
  • insane gank potential? Check
  • Very high late game potential without many items? Check.
  • Juke god? Check
  • spammable disables? Check

The only thing is that he is easily countered by wards.But wait,who else is countered by wards?let me take a wild guess......PUDGE.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Unscathed » December 6, 2014 11:11am | Report
KoDyAbAbA wrote:

Nyx Assassin is actually a serial rapist who just doesn't get picked much.His late game is MUCH MUCH better than that of Pudge.
  • insane gank potential? Check
  • Very high late game potential without many items? Check.
  • Juke god? Check
  • spammable disables? Check

The only thing is that he is easily countered by wards.But wait,who else is countered by wards?let me take a wild guess......PUDGE.

he also REKTS mid.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by KrDotoBestDoto » December 6, 2014 11:31am | Report
Pudge is a very situational hero that heavily depends on the enemy lineup and uses the moment of surprise rather than a well calculated draft.
There has to be at least 3 heroes on the enemy team with limited mobility for Pudge to be a threat. The thing is you can only buy so many wards and if you already know you have a Pudge and can assess where the enemy team will set their wards you can basically blindfold them. They can't ignore Pudge, because his ganking power is too high and they can't focus on him, because they will have limited vision. By relying on this you can pull it off, but you need a very good Pudge player and your team has to be able to abuse the advantage Pudge gives them.

The main problem in the current meta is probably that even though Pudge can create a lot of space and intimidate the enemy team the games tend to go too long for Pudge to stay relevant. Like Queen of Pain you gamble on the success of your ganks to win before lategame.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Unscathed » December 6, 2014 3:35pm | Report
Couldnt pudge just get aghs and scale lategame?

He is still useful as a disabler rigth... Hook, 3 sec disable, 30 sec cooldown, goes thru naguc immuniy
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Xyrus » December 6, 2014 3:43pm | Report
Unscathed wrote:

Couldnt pudge just get aghs and scale lategame?

He is still useful as a disabler rigth... Hook, 3 sec disable, 30 sec cooldown, goes thru naguc immuniy

Aghs doesn't improve his Late Game, it's just a good item to pick up if you start to feel the combo from his Damage wearing off, but you feel you'll win the game in the next 10 minutes.

Having said that though, a (lvl 1) Dagon would give you much better Damage for much less.

Blink Dagger + Boots of Travel give him plenty of mobility for picking off Lone Targets like Nature's Prophet, but Late Game, either everyone is usually grouped up making effetcive Meat Hooks much harder, or they've gotten quite Tanky to the point that they can take you easily enough 1 vs 1.

Remember, Dismemeber can be interupted, and that becomes an even bigger issue as Blink Daggers, Force Staffs, Abyssal Blades, etc. start coming out.

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