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Menstro, The Mind Worker

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Forum » Hero & Item Ideas » Menstro, The Mind Worker 13 posts - page 1 of 2

Poll Question:

What should Menstro's ultimate be?
Shattering Thought
You Don't Mind
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Powergoat » July 28, 2014 1:51pm | Report
Menso Thiik, The Mind Worker

Faction: The Radiant
Primary attribute: Intelligence
Attack Type: Ranged
Attack range: 645
Role(s): Semi-Carry, Nuker, Disabler
Strength: 19 +2 per level
Agility: 15 +1.6 per level
Intelligence: 23 +3 per level
Base armor: 0
Cast point: 0.2
move speed:320

Menso Thiik began as any thought would, a little voice in the back of someones head. Except, Menso wast just any voice inside any head. Menstro was the last fragment of humanity left in the great Invoker. but the Invoker saw this as a weakness, so he learned a spell to cast out this little voice. Unknown to Carl, this little thought did not vanish as a normal one would, but persisted. It wandered through the world, gleaning information from the world from the minds of others, untill his mental capacity had finnaly become large enough to project a physical form

Ability 1:Q: Mental Struggle
Ability:Target Unit Affects:Enemies Damage:magic

Menso Clashes his thoughts With his enemy's, Dealing damage based of the difference in XP. In Menstro is on the higher side the extra damage is doubled. Effect is Instant.
The bonus damage will include a fraction of a level, AND is a separate instance of damage.

Base damage:100,140,180,220
Extra damage per level:10,20,25,40
Cooldown:6 seconds
Mana cost: 100,120,140,180

Menso Thiik's Memories are Powerful enough to be felt

Ability 2:W:Delicious Thought
Ability:passive Affects:self

Menso is very keen at preserving the intelligence of a dying creature, and putting it to good use. Menso Thiik Earns a percentage of experience for denied creeps, on both teams, as well as getting a small percentage of all experience earned for both teams in a large area. Includes friendly and enemy heroes and creeps, and neutrals.

denied experience taken:55,70,85,100%
XP stolen:6,12,18,24%

Menso hates to see memories die, so he simply takes them for himself

Ability 3:E:Heavy on the Mind
Ability:Active Affects:Enemies Damage type:Magical

Menso Makes his enemy's thoughts physical, Slowing them based on Menstro's level and doing a DOT based on their own Level

Slow per level:20 + 1,1.5,2,2.5
Slow Duration:6
Damage per enemy level:20 + 1.4,2,2.6,3.2
Damage duration:5 seconds
Cooldown:18 seconds
Mana cost:100,150,200,400

A thought can weigh more then any blade, and Menso knows how to bring his enemy's Violent thoughts to the forefront of their mind

Now for the ult, I have 2 Ideas. Please give your thoughts to which I should use

Ability 4:R:Shattering Thought
Ability:Target Unit Affects:Enemies
Menso Thiik Channels his targets thoughts into himself, rapidly regaining mana and causing the target to lose levels per second for a short amount of time.The target is slowed for the duration. The Level loss only ticks down for the duration of the channel, but the levels do not come back until double of time spent channeling after the channeling has stopped. Menso also temporarily gains the targets lost stats. The target of the spell cannot earn XP during the duration. You cannot reduce and enemy past 1 level. The target temporarily loses skill-points in the order he leveled them, and also suffers from negative stat gain. All effect reverse at the end of the duration

Levels lost per second:1,1.75,2.5(*1.5,2.25,3)
Max channel duration:4
Max Effect length:12
Mana cost:150,250,400,600
Attack slow:80
Move slow:90%

Insted of fighting power with power, Menstro prefers to let the enemy forget their power before fighting them

I prefer mind shatter because it overall synergies more

- See more at:

Because of the way this hero is built, he is very powerful both playing from ahead or behind. His Q and mainly his e will still do a lot of damage to someone who has a significant level advantage over him, and using his ultimate he can bring is enemy's down to size. His passive is potent in the laning phase, letting him get a level advantage. would be potent mid with his his passive, but his early game nukes might as well o be skilled. A Midas would also be very potent on him, getting the level advantage even more.


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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by KoDyAbAbA » July 28, 2014 8:44pm | Report
first skill is OP without the the specifications, it implies that the spell will do

300 + 50*25 = 1550 damage on a 4 second cooldown for just 160 mana,
do you know how muchdamage the first skill would do if your char had 50 levels?
300 +50*50= 2800 !!!
and heroes running around with 100 hp? one Aoe spell and DEAD ALL DEAD.

please rework


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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Powergoat » July 29, 2014 5:43am | Report
I think you misinterpreted how all the abilitys work, and how dota works overall. The Q ability does have he POTENTIAL to to a large amount of damage, but that would require a long channel of shattering thought, which does not disable the target. Also, the max level cap is 25, and shattering thought does not let you surpass this. I admit I may need to raise the mana cost of his Q a small bit, but you are stating his maximum damage in Ideal circumstances, when on the battlefield that would not work so well. I see this hero as a powerfull late gamer, should all heroes be close to 25, he can blink in, use his E, follow with shattering thought, and follow with a single cast of his Q. He only kills the target if he lands all of these.


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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Valar Morghulis » July 29, 2014 6:33am | Report
This is a great idea man :)

TBH, I wouldn't listen to 'KoDyAbAbA' even if he were right, way too rude.

Keep up the good work :)

All men must die, atleast while Shallow Grave is on cooldown.

Valar Morghulis

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Yzreel » July 29, 2014 8:38am | Report
To be honest, this hero is kind of hard to balance since the whole gameplay revolves around the amount of experience (which can go down to thousands amount), but since I was asked for it I will do my best. First thing to note, I do not intend any harm and am being as objective as possible, hope you are not offended.

First off, I would like to comment about the hero role. Seeing how most of the skills rely on him having more experience than the opponent, I would completely scrap the role of support and lane-support, in fact, I think he can fare better as a (semi)carry. I think his second skill is best used if he is played in the third position (offlane), and therefore not really a lane support and much less likely to be a support.

Then to the first skill, I like the base idea of dealing damage based on the difference of level, the thing is your scaling is really, really bad. From level 1 to 2 and 2 to 3, the increase in damage is only 50, with 5 damage per level (which is 120 damage at most, in impossible event of level 25 and 1), but the mana increase is 50 and 100. This make the skill very inefficient and rather useless, especially given his relatively low int. Furthermore, the change to level 3 and 4 is just too substantial. I know that you might intend to have it increases more in level 4 (so the level difference is apparent), but 120 increase of damage and 20/level is just too much, not to mention 350 MP is just ridiculous, it's as much as level 1 Global Silence. I would suggest lowering the overall MP cost and make the scaling better. My suggestion: 100/140/180/220 damage, 10/20/25/40 damage per level difference with 100/120/140/170 MP cost and a fixed 6 seconds cooldown (this way, the early damage comes from the skill, while as level increases, the difference of level affects more)

The second skill is rather interesting since it puts him in offlane position much better, and the range increase is actually pretty good (1300 is original, a 700 increase). The thing is, it's a bit tricky because 30% exp steal is just too much, but otherwise leveling this skill up wouldn't be a viable option. Therefore, my suggestion is to make scaling increase in denied creeps and nerf down the exp steal. What I would do: 6/12/18/24% exp stolen, 55/70/85/100% exp in denied creeps.

The third skill is a great skill, but it is too strong in late game. 3.6*25 is 90% slow, while dealing damage over time of 25*5 = 125 damage per second, for 10 whole seconds. 1250 damage is already as strong as Doom, and not to mention 10 seconds 90% slow... it's just too much man. Additionally, this skill is just too useless early on. I suggest making the damage more viable early on and nerf it in late game as well as lowering the duration and mana cost. What about: 20+1/1.5/2/2.5% slow with 20+1.4/2/2.6/3.2 damage per second (the bonus damage is based on enemy level) for 5 seconds duration, with 65/110/155/200 MP cost. I think 20 seconds cooldown is good enough, but can be rescaled to 24/20/16/12 seconds to make it worth upgrading and with the base damage, it is more viable early on, while at the highest possible amount, it only deal 100*5 = 500 damage (considering the MP cost and late game amount it is balanced already, especially with 82.5% slow)

Ultimate skill... Okay, I am VERY against the idea of controlling a hero, no matter how you balance it out (even if you do a pretty good job with the backlash damage and very low range), especially with the ridiculous aghanim upgrade (even if he does need Blink Dagger, Black King Bar and Aghanim's Scepter for this to be optimal, and I know it costs like almost 10.000 gold). Therefore, I will talk more about the Shattering Thought.

It is a very, very interesting and useful ultimate skill. The thing is that this skill is very hard to come to use, considering 10 seconds channeling time is next to impossible (and even if possible, it's too late to be of any use in war). I would rather you reduce the channeling time and rescale it a bit, and why does this skill has 4 levels? I would also add disable to the ultimate skill (considering the role is also a disabler), and make it similar to Fiend's Grip). If it is up to me, I will do it like this: 1/1.75/2.5 levels per second channeled, for 4 seconds maximum channel time and disables the target for the time channeled. I would also change the "Menso also temporarily gains levels that increases stats and work with his q and e" part to steal enemy's stats growth based from the level taken (which is around 30 stats) for twice the duration of successful channel time. For the MP and cast range, as well as cooldown, I think 100 MP/second casted (probably scrap the MP regeneration part) for 500/750/1000 cast range with 120/90/60 seconds cooldown is good. What do you think?

Overall, this hero has very interesting concept and great synergy with the skills, but you lack the balancing part. I would love to see your ideas grow and you to be more mature and balancing, good luck for future ideas :D
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Powergoat » July 29, 2014 9:06am | Report
Thank you yzreel, this was exactly what I was hoping to hear. I am on a phone now, but I will respond with a counterparagraph as soon as can reach a computer.

First of all, about the roles, I did realize this after writhing all the abilitys. I just forgot to change it. But I do agree the role should be semicarry-nuker-disabler

Second, I approve of almost all the balances you made, and the arguments you used to back them up. I am hesitant to outright implement them all, but I have a feeling that might be what will happen. This is my first attempt at creating a hero, and I have a long way to go before I get a hang of the balancing.

I only created the You don't mind ability as an example, and put the poll up just in case people really liked it. I expected shattering thought to be his real ultimate.

My only real argument is one concerning his Ult, suggesting that the level steal be in the form of obtaining the enemy's stolen lost stats. While this does not synergyse as well, It can make for some interesting plays, like stealing from a centaur to be able to tank the enemy carry for a short while. I think you might have misinterpreted what I meant when I said steal levels for Q and E. I really meant that you gain false levels that your Q and E register as real and gain increased power. but either way, I will be editing my hero to conform the these now obvious balances.


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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Bunkansee » July 29, 2014 11:04am | Report
First things first, although nothing to do with the hero, and this is totally up to you, some colour would make it easier to read, maybe highlight spell titles etc. with colour?

Anyway onto the hero itself!

So for Q I don't quite understand the skill, so tell me if I'm wrong. It deals 80 damage first, and deals bonus damage based on the amount of levels he has? So 80 + 20x5 = 180 damge for an example. And if he has higer exp the bonus damage (20x5) is doubled? So it would instead deal 280 damage. It seems a good skill. But I'd like to give a quick example of it being slightly overpowered, if I understand the skill correctly. Here is an example. You are level 10 with a level 4 q ability. Your opponent is level 9. It will deal 300 base damage plus an extra 500 (10x50) which is doubled so it would deal 1300? Its quite a lot of damage and it will only get higher (by 50 each level), which is something no other skills do, like Lina for example, deals 280 damage with dragon slave, and it stays the same the whole game, whereas this hero will be dealing more damage with spells as he levels instead of less. I think I have understood this hero correctly, but I am unsure. Either way, 1300 damage at level 10 is nothing to be scoffed at, and can almost 1 shot any hero at this point.

Next W skill. So the passive allows him to get full exp for denied enemies, and gives him a % of all exp gained by allies in an area. So this means, if a creep was kills for 200 exp (just an example) he would gain 200+10% so 220 exp. Although all his skills are based on being higher level than his enemies, this makes the above skill even worse. He will easily be outleveling his enemies, and they have pretty much no way to stop him, they can't deny, so what would you do at this point? All you have for choices is for your team to gank, or to await your inevitable Q: 1 shot nuke.

Now for the E! This is my favourite skill! I How much is the slow however, is it % based? The damage is really bad early, but it would be great late game.

The R, I much prefer Shattering Thought much more than you don't mind, it works much better with his other skills with the level boost. So do you keep the levels for awhile after channeling is over?

Really, I feel the Q needs a nerf if I understand it correctly.

Hope I didn't offend you with any of this, and please correct me if I messed up any of the skills.


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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Powergoat » July 29, 2014 11:19am | Report
It is of no offence to me, but you did make a crucial observation error. The q does not do damage based on menso's level but based on the difference between menso and the target's level, so your numbers are way off and his q does not do nearly that much


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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Bunkansee » July 29, 2014 11:22am | Report
Powergoat wrote:

It is of no offence to me, but you did make a crucial observation error. The q does not do damage based on menso's level but based on the difference between menso and the target's level, so your numbers are way off and his q does not do nearly that much

Ah okay, big mistake by me. Thanks for clarifying!


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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by kkoopman3 » July 29, 2014 12:44pm | Report
Damn Yzreel. Looks like you tore this apart.


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