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How to escape from perma DOOM + Sprout ?

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Forum » General Discussion » How to escape from perma DOOM + Sprout ? 16 posts - page 1 of 2
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by GunMan113 » March 20, 2016 12:55am | Report
So today I am facing a team with Doom, NP, Pudge, AA, and Gyro

One thing that makes me fell so frustrated is the perma doom + perma sprout combo. Because it seems that Doom's build was a utility ganker ( he has phase, crimson guard, and agh at lvl 11 ) and NP has brown boot with agh and octarine core at lvl 11

So how do they managed to did it? NP simply sprout a target ( 6s duration with 6s cooldown with octa ) and Doom uses his agh upgraded ult ( wich makes your passive turned off and the timer will reset whenever he is nearb ). So how the F**K would you managed to counter that ? I've done everything i could, like placing wards, constantly looking at the minimap, sticking together, etc.
But they seem to think 2 steps ahead. Like dewarding, ambushing at the blindspots,etc

And it gets even worse at late game when Doom has refresher orb ( and some other item ), effectively making our carries a sad creep. So that NP would sprout someone first, then pudge would come in with his blink and tries to hook another hero while Doom DOOMing any opposing hero that got "caught".And of course Gyro and AA would take care the rest of my team with a little help from NP's auto attack while pudge is enjoying his feat with 2 trapped chiken

Do you have any suggestion how to counter it? yes, I know it is simply "spot them before they spot you" but doing that isn't easy as it sounds like, and no, linken or BKB didn't help, at all. Why? Since the enemy Doom isn't a ****** who would fall to the same trap again ad again (using his ult on hero that has a Linken before popping it), he managed to get Eul's Scepter, wich is not a bad item for him actualy ( it gives him extra movement speed, mana, mana regen, disable and potentialy pop a linken or lotus, wich is prety much everthing he needs) plus his ult go through BKB and so does Pudge's ult, NP's sprout can be cast on ground, so BKB won't help while AA and Gyro's ult are just some nice "bonus"

Please, If any of you happened to ecounter the same situation as mine and succesfuly countered it, I beg you to share the strategy

GunMan113



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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Wulfstan » March 20, 2016 8:40am | Report
Go for them before they go for you. Or use heroes that can protect the doomed ally: Oracle, Omniknight, Abaddon or Dazzle.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by michimatsch » March 20, 2016 8:55am | Report
Get Silencer. Cast ult. Proceed to laugh about the attempts of the Doom to Doom anyone.
No, seriously. Silence them. Even a Riki or a Drow Ranger (not advised) can do tha). Or just play the highground defense game as Natures Prophet will give you loads of farm.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Hamstertamer » March 20, 2016 9:17am | Report
How is Sprout + Doom even a problem? Sprout prevents your hero from being attacked by melee heroes. So the enemy team will actually have a much harder time killing him. The whole point of Doom is that, if he gets his ulti off, you will fight 4 vs 5. But if your hero gets sprouted on top of doomed...it's very likely that he'll survive the fight. Sure Doom stays permanently up with aghs, but the damage it deals on its own is a bit of a joke after the nerf.

So the enemy team just blew everything they have on one hero, then you just turn around and kill them? And your guy doesn't even die, because Furion was such a nice guy to protect him?

Don't take me wrong, if the enemy team has much better map control and keeps warding/dewarding while your supports do nothing, then you have a big problem, because you can get easily picked off. But then the solution is probably to 5-man smoke, or turtle in your base.

If it's a question about how to play from behind with bad warding, then I get it. But the Sprout + Doom combo feels awfully weak to me, if not counter-productive.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Cuttleboss » March 20, 2016 11:08am | Report
That is an interesting combo. The escape is probably still Linken's Sphere, and that combo is very weak from behind, since Doom won't be able to stay close to you, and its situational since they need ranged right clickers, which is less common in pubs. In this particular case it seemed irritating, but probably not something you should really be afraid of by default.


Have you ever run against a Doom + Rupture combo? Now that was a nightmare when I faced it.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Blubbles » March 20, 2016 7:12pm | Report
For as often as you're gonna see this combo of not particularrly meta heroes, I wouldnt worry about it too much. Maybe Cold Snap and Doom. Just stick to to Linkens and magic immunity.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by GunMan113 » March 20, 2016 11:52pm | Report
Hamstertamer wrote:

How is Sprout + Doom even a problem? Sprout prevents your hero from being attacked by melee heroes. So the enemy team will actually have a much harder time killing him. The whole point of Doom is that, if he gets his ulti off, you will fight 4 vs 5. But if your hero gets sprouted on top of doomed...it's very likely that he'll survive the fight. Sure Doom stays permanently up with aghs, but the damage it deals on its own is a bit of a joke after the nerf.

So the enemy team just blew everything they have on one hero, then you just turn around and kill them? And your guy doesn't even die, because Furion was such a nice guy to protect him?

Don't take me wrong, if the enemy team has much better map control and keeps warding/dewarding while your supports do nothing, then you have a big problem, because you can get easily picked off. But then the solution is probably to 5-man smoke, or turtle in your base.

If it's a question about how to play from behind with bad warding, then I get it. But the Sprout + Doom combo feels awfully weak to me, if not counter-productive.
you don't get the point, at early - mid game, it is almost a guaranteed kill since we can't escape ( note that when you are doomed you cant use skill or item ) unless we have a teamate nearby that can destroy NPs ring tree. And in late game, the purpose is to completely isolate the target from team fight. And we can't really save him / her because he / she is far away thanks to pudge's hook without dying. Yes, it may looks like they are "protecting" our the target. But so what ? it's not like our ally can escape from that trap and they will kill him later after winning the 5 vs 4 team fight

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Dimonychan » March 21, 2016 12:04am | Report
That's what Doom normally does without any Nature's Profits to help him, what's your point? A lot of stuff in the game is almost a guaranteed kill.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Hamstertamer » March 21, 2016 1:34am | Report
GunMan113 wrote:

And we can't really save him / her because he / she is far away thanks to pudge's hook without dying. Yes, it may looks like they are "protecting" our the target. But so what ? it's not like our ally can escape from that trap and they will kill him later after winning the 5 vs 4 team fight


You do realize that if an ally gets hooked into the entire enemy team, he'a already dead from just that, right? Dooming the hero on top of this is called overkill. Not a brilliant new meta combo. Using a 125 second cooldown ultimate on an already dead hero is called throwing, or being terrible at the game, I don't see whet else there is to it. A normal Pudge just Dismembers that hero while his team kills him and it's 1000 times better.

That's my whole point. If it's a discussion of "The enemy team keeps warding and dewarding, we have no wards and we're getting owned by the enemy Pudge", then I get it. But if it's about Doom + Sprout which feels horribly bad to me, it isolates a hero for 6 seconds while dealing 80 damage/second so he takes only 480 damage while being protected from most other damage sources, and then what? He's removed from the fight from 6 seconds while taking almost no damage, so he can come back to the fight after sprout ends? If he's a carry, he can right-click whatever he wants after sprout ends because he's almost full HP, and is he's a support, they just doomed a support. The enemy team turned the strongest single target disable in the game into Cyclone, or Nightmare. Even worse because it's actually hook into Doom, a guaranteed kill if I ever saw any. Instead, they prevent that hero from being focused down and he can come back and fight after 6 seconds. They're terrible!
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Wulfstan » March 21, 2016 1:47am | Report
Quoted:
But if it's about Doom + Sprout which feels horribly bad to me, it isolates a hero for 6 seconds while dealing 80 damage/second so he takes only 480 damage while being protected from most other damage sources, and then what? He's removed from the fight from 6 seconds while taking almost no damage, so he can come back to the fight after sprout ends? If he's a carry, he can right-click whatever he wants after sprout ends because he's almost full HP



First:

What were the other 3 heroes that were in the enemy team as well?
Prophet can hit Sprouted targets no problem as well.
Factor in Scorched Earth too. (not to mention Infernal Blade after sprout would be done)
Yes, he can right click... and die because he is doomed.

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