Antimage cleave or no cleave

K so i had a antimage game yesterday
link- http://dotabuff.com/matches/731427772

So the game started with me and sd safe lane dire against bh and jakiro
-necro mid against zeus
-treant and spectre hard lane dire against jugg and lich

So the treant wasnt exactly a good treant player(my opinion)he took all lh from spectre(base dmg too high) and as a result spectre left lane and went jungle...
Due to this their jugg got 4 free kills on treant and even took tower then him and lich did same at mid and got t2 also cause we couldnt teamfight at that time..
Only top me and sd didnt give any kills and sd even got first blood while i was in base healing(too much harrass dont judge me)
Then after getting treads top i decided to go contest against jug...went horribly he had deso and i died in 2 crits...
This happened and i decided that bf was gonna take much time and jungle was for spectre alone cause he too needed more farm...
So i rushed the vlads and did the split push thing...even farmed enemy jungle for while...
Then came the teamfight time when they wanted to rosh...the fight happened near dire ancients and tree did the only good thing i felt entire game...he ulted then tanked jug ult while me an spectre got their supports and that bounty hunter
Well from there it was manta to basher to butterfly and mkb for me(went 0-3 to 9-3)
Oh w8 forgot the main question
Do u think i should have waited longer and got the bf or getting vlads after treads was a good choice skipping bf altogether?

Personally I only get battlefury for farming, not sure about other uses of it though

You did the right thing. If your Team can't create space for you, you'll never get a 15 minute Battle Fury, let alone a chance to Farm safely. Getting Vladmir's Offering helps you and your Team (they clearly needed help -_- ).

Battle Fury is a farming item and so you need to pick it up early: if you're playing versus a contested lane, most of the time you should consider skipping or delaying it. Personally, I don't play AM versus contested lanes in the first place, but when I find myself in these situations I usually rush a Manta Style and then finish my BF (unless there are other Heroes that need farm more than me) which usually takes about 30-35 minutes, 5-10 minutes more than average.

It usually goes like this:

• Power Treads
• Ring of Health
• Realizes he's not gonna finish his BF
• Yasha for quicker farming
• Manta Style for split pushing
• Battle Fury if getting enough gold, otherwise Vladmir's Offering or nothing else
• Abyssal Blade/ Butterfly/ Heart of Tarrasque/whatever

I personally don't like Vlad's on Anti-Mage that much, but it's a good option in two cases: when you're behind - though I still prefer going Manta first - and when you're so ahead in farm (which means a 20 minute BF + Manta, or a bit later) that you want an item to finish the game as soon as possible.

You did the smart choice, though I have a question now. Why a Spectre and an Anti-Mage in the same team anyway? Treant Protector and Spectre would have both fed the bot lane Juggernaut anyway since they both have a poor lane presence, and can't really do much against Blade Fury but run.

Guys wats the longest time u think should be taken for bf?
Yeah in this game i thought of getting bf when we had pushed some towers but decided against it finally and rushed butterfly

Agreed, plus they were two melee Heroes that couldn't harass at all. Spectre can hide in the trees with the Dagger though, so at least she shouldn't have died too much with good positioning. :D

EDIT: That Juggernaut maxing the Healing Ward last, though... As expected, they didn't manage to push all the towers exploiting Jug's strength and lost because he doesn't scale in the late game as well as AM and Spectre. Always max the heal second, guys.



Less than 20 minutes for sure: I think that 16:30 is fine if you're buying Treads too (which is what you should always be doing in my opinion), but ideally it should take 15 minutes. I just make sure I can get both BF and Manta by 25 minutes, and you need at least 8 minutes in the jungle and some towers to farm your Manta.

TL;DR: less than 20 minutes, possibly less than 18 if you're playing a serious game. And if you're going manta first, 25-30 minutes.

The risks of random draft

About 5 minutes in, you should have a good idea of how the next 10 minutes are going to go. Ask yourself, "Is anyone gonig to contest my Farm?", "Is there a good chance I could die more than once in the next 10 minutes?". If the answer to either is yes, then don't go Battle Fury.

If you feel confident you can Farm it, make sure you can get it 15:00. Going over a little is fine, but no more than a minute or 2.

Never get Battle fury] if the other Team are going to Roam around in your Jungle a lot either, e.g. they have a [[Pudge/Nightstalker/ Skywrath Mage/etc. who will keep coming to Gank you every so often.

Surely there was a stronger Hero in the pool? 8{(

I find it hard to believe that there was no better pick than a Spectre after AM was picked or vice-versa.