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1 Votes

Doom - One of the Best Jungler !

January 19, 2014 by NooBThaNYoU
Comments: 8    |    Views: 16821    |   


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Peppo_oPaccio (70) | January 20, 2014 5:59am
Xyrus wrote:

Where's the love for Bottle-Crowing Doom Bringer? You have to make sure you'll have access to the Courier early on, but if you have a Bottle independant Mid like Invoker, Viper, etc. It's a better option than Ring of Basilius since you won't need to use Scorched Earth for Healing as much. Not to mention, you can use the Runes for Ganking. It can even save your Life if you time the uses while running away from a Gank.

If he says a RoB delays the Midas, I think he would say a Bottle delays it even more. I find Bottle crowing really useful for other junglers like Lycanthrope, and even though it isn't a must for Doom it would really help with mana in the mid game.

As for the item icons, put double square brackets to highlight items and Heroes: ((Iron Branch)), with square brackets, becomes Iron Branch. You can also do (icon=Name size=32) with a single square bracket, substituting "Name" with any item or Hero and "32" with any size you feel comfortable with. Read Dr.D's guide for more.
1
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Xyrus (104) | January 20, 2014 3:15am
Sando wrote:

Really you need 120 mana per minute in order to keep using Devour and Scorched Earth to keep you farming and healthy. Ring of Basilius adds 0.65 mana regen/second, which is over double what you start with (best value item for low intel heroes early game). That's now over 60 mana per minute incoming. It also adds 6 damage and 10.8% damage reduction - i.e. you can kill creeps faster and take less damage.

Where's the love for Bottle-Crowing Doom Bringer? You have to make sure you'll have access to the Courier early on, but if you have a Bottle independant Mid like Invoker, Viper, etc. It's a better option than Ring of Basilius since you won't need to use Scorched Earth for Healing as much. Not to mention, you can use the Runes for Ganking. It can even save your Life if you time the uses while running away from a Gank.
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NooBThaNYoU | January 19, 2014 4:30pm
Sando wrote:

Well, it's one of those situations where you need to invest in order to make more money. Doom has a very small mana pool, and rubbish starting intelligence (13). His mana regen is 0.04 * 13 = 0.52 per second, or about 30 per minute.

Really you need 120 mana per minute in order to keep using Devour and Scorched Earth to keep you farming and healthy. Ring of Basilius adds 0.65 mana regen/second, which is over double what you start with (best value item for low intel heroes early game). That's now over 60 mana per minute incoming. It also adds 6 damage and 10.8% damage reduction - i.e. you can kill creeps faster and take less damage.

Having to go back to the fountain to recharge is very inefficient, it's probably about a minute round trip even from the edge of the jungle - that's a minute with no farm and no xp. Getting RoB allows you to stay in the jungle all the time (bar ganks), hence it will pay for itself in no time. Also handy for ensuring you have mana for escaping, ganking lanes etc. Speculate to accumulate.

You can look here for how to use graphics, hero links etc.


I'll try it in game and see whether is it worth to buy. Is there a list where I can know all the icon, skill and hero code?
1
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Sando (118) | January 19, 2014 3:25pm
Well, it's one of those situations where you need to invest in order to make more money. Doom has a very small mana pool, and rubbish starting intelligence (13). His mana regen is 0.04 * 13 = 0.52 per second, or about 30 per minute.

Really you need 120 mana per minute in order to keep using Devour and Scorched Earth to keep you farming and healthy. Ring of Basilius adds 0.65 mana regen/second, which is over double what you start with (best value item for low intel heroes early game). That's now over 60 mana per minute incoming. It also adds 6 damage and 10.8% damage reduction - i.e. you can kill creeps faster and take less damage.

Having to go back to the fountain to recharge is very inefficient, it's probably about a minute round trip even from the edge of the jungle - that's a minute with no farm and no xp. Getting RoB allows you to stay in the jungle all the time (bar ganks), hence it will pay for itself in no time. Also handy for ensuring you have mana for escaping, ganking lanes etc. Speculate to accumulate.

You can look here for how to use graphics, hero links etc.
1
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NooBThaNYoU | January 19, 2014 9:15am
Sando wrote:

What he said :)

Ring of Basilius is very important - yes, you need the Stout Shield to reduce the incoming damage the most, but the extra 10% damage reduction and the mana regen from this are also vital to making sure you can keep using Devour and Scorched Earth. You can make it into a Vladmir's Offering sometime later.


Because buying this item will actually delay the hand of midas so I actually choose to skip this item, you ask the similar question as the 1st reply, I have wrote the reason why I didn't buy this. And I rarely go for vladmir offering because my aim is to become a semi carry and vladmir would be a waste of slot. If it's a supporter doom and I will get that ittem, but ofc it depend on the situation.
1
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NooBThaNYoU | January 19, 2014 9:07am

There are some problems with your build:

1. No Ring of Basilius: I don't know your jungling rotation but I myself have tested many different stating sets - Basilius + Tango, Quelling Blade + Tango + Ring of Protection, Sage's Mask + Stout Shield + a Tango coming with Basilius from the courier etc - and none of them worked as good as the Shield + Quelling Blade + Tango set, with a Ring of Basilius coming as soon as possible. The reson behind it is that you will never have enough mana to use Scorched Earth every minute without it; the fact that you get two points in it before getting a second point in Devour makes mana management even more important. It delays your Hand of Midas, but consider it as an investment: by getting it you'll be able to clear 2-3 camps per minute while staying with high HP; these 2-3 camps can be all medium or hard, no small camps with little experience and gold.

2. Jungling using the small camp. You know, supports need to pull to get experience: by stealing the small camp you prevent your team's carry (which should be laning in the side lane close to the jungle with a support) from having a good laning phase, plus you make your support get very little experience or steal it from the carry. You can easily jungle using the medium and big camps near the mid lane (Radiant side) or close to the tier 1 tower top (Dire side): it's not difficult, as long as you have enough mana to cast Devour and Scorched Earth every minute.


By the way, Storm Spirit kinda counters Doom, too: since Storm usually rushes an Orchid Malevolence if you get initiated on you'll die before being able to land your ultimate; on the other side, if he initiates on one of your teammates you can easily stop him. The same applies to Invoker, though pub players still stick with the Force Staff + Aghanim's Scepter build so the Orchid is much less common.

I would also remove Aghanim's Scepter between the 30 minute items since armor is a huge problem for Doom and the extra seconds for the ultimate usually don't help. I'd rather spend ~4000 gold for a Black King Bar (which you have listed) or wait and get a Shiva's Guard.


Previously I actually try Ring of Basilius but I just want to get the hand of midas ASAP and some game enemy won't allowed you to farm that long, every minute is your gold time. As the meta game changed since 6.79, the game ended much quicker than before. I have encounter many times that enemies are breaking our middle lane at around 20 minutes point, and thus I don't take risk for going Ring of Basilius. 2 - 3 minutes mean a lot to me, and I actually went back base once for sure at the early game stage around lv3-4 after using most of the mana and hp.

2. I guess I didn't write to farm the small camp, I'm just telling that the camp have switch since 6.79 patch and you can't do it anymore. Maybe I should have added there, thanks for letting me know.

Lastly, how come you are having all those item icon? Any easy way for me to do it? My guided seems to be very long because there are a lot of word without any icons.
1
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Sando (118) | January 19, 2014 8:20am
What he said :)

Ring of Basilius is very important - yes, you need the Stout Shield to reduce the incoming damage the most, but the extra 10% damage reduction and the mana regen from this are also vital to making sure you can keep using Devour and Scorched Earth. You can make it into a Vladmir's Offering sometime later.
1
[-]
Peppo_oPaccio (70) | January 19, 2014 7:36am
There are some problems with your build:

1. No Ring of Basilius: I don't know your jungling rotation but I myself have tested many different stating sets - Basilius + Tango, Quelling Blade + Tango + Ring of Protection, Sage's Mask + Stout Shield + a Tango coming with Basilius from the courier etc - and none of them worked as good as the Shield + Quelling Blade + Tango set, with a Ring of Basilius coming as soon as possible. The reson behind it is that you will never have enough mana to use Scorched Earth every minute without it; the fact that you get two points in it before getting a second point in Devour makes mana management even more important. It delays your Hand of Midas, but consider it as an investment: by getting it you'll be able to clear 2-3 camps per minute while staying with high HP; these 2-3 camps can be all medium or hard, no small camps with little experience and gold.

2. Jungling using the small camp. You know, supports need to pull to get experience: by stealing the small camp you prevent your team's carry (which should be laning in the side lane close to the jungle with a support) from having a good laning phase, plus you make your support get very little experience or steal it from the carry. You can easily jungle using the medium and big camps near the mid lane (Radiant side) or close to the tier 1 tower top (Dire side): it's not difficult, as long as you have enough mana to cast Devour and Scorched Earth every minute.


By the way, Storm Spirit kinda counters Doom, too: since Storm usually rushes an Orchid Malevolence if you get initiated on you'll die before being able to land your ultimate; on the other side, if he initiates on one of your teammates you can easily stop him. The same applies to Invoker, though pub players still stick with the Force Staff + Aghanim's Scepter build so the Orchid is much less common.

I would also remove Aghanim's Scepter between the 30 minute items since armor is a huge problem for Doom and the extra seconds for the ultimate usually don't help. I'd rather spend ~4000 gold for a Black King Bar (which you have listed) or wait and get a Shiva's Guard.
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