Help Support Our Growing Community

DOTAFire is a community that lives to help every Dota 2 player take their game to the next level by having open access to all our tools and resources. Please consider supporting us by whitelisting us in your ad blocker!

Want to support DOTAFire with an ad-free experience? You can support us ad-free for less than $1 a month!

Go Ad-Free
Smitefire logo

Join the leading DOTA 2 community.
Create and share Hero Guides and Builds.

Create an MFN Account






Or

Thinking about a team build

Please review our General Rules & Guidelines before posting or commenting anywhere on DOTAFire.

Forum » Theory Crafting » Thinking about a team build 8 posts - page 1 of 1
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Illiander » December 23, 2013 6:19am | Report
I've been thinking about tactically-themed teams for a while now, and this lineup keeps poping into my head:

Keeper of the Light (support)
Phantom Lancer (safelane)
Nature's Prophet (jungle)
Dragon Knight (mid)
Broodmother (offlane)

I'm curious what you would think if you saw this as the enemy lineup, before I give my reasoning. (I don't want to bias you to what I'm thinking)

Illiander


Notable (2)
Posts: 26
Steam: Illy
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Peppo_oPaccio » December 23, 2013 6:47am | Report
It's a pretty decent lineup, but I don't really like having more than one split pusher in a team (except if one of them is a carry) because with this lineup you have zero teamfight power. Okay, DK is kinda good at teamfighting, but you have no control spells aside from his Dragon Tail and maybe NP's Sprout; that makes your mid game very easy to lose.

There are some Heroes that can really disrupt your team: Clockwerk and Batrider because they can catch your split pushers (for which reason they've always been picked and banned consistently in the competitive scene); good gankers like Night Stalker and Nyx Assassin (ganking usually beats split pushing) and, obviously, Earthshaker.
Heroes with conterpushing abilities and maybe some teamfight ( Gyrocopter, Luna, Mirana and Pugna pop off my mind) can make you have a hard time, but they are less than a threat if you start pushing early on.

Personally, I would remove Broodmother (you can't pick her in CM anyway) and Phantom Lancer to throw in Juggernaut and a teamfight controller like Shadow Demon, Nyx Assassin or Lion: you can make an aggressive trilane with Jug, KotL and one of them and let NP get solo farm in the safe lane; then you start split pushing with him and leave the rest of the team to another enemy tower, with the Healing Ward for extra survivability. SD can disable various Heroes if clashes occur (and is also pretty good in the laning phase because his Disruption lets Jug land a good Blade Fury), Nyx and Lion can stun as many enemies as possible and are good gankers. They also need little items.
Or, you can pick Chen instead of Brood/NP and let him jungle: he's a pretty good pusher and his heals really come in handy early on when PL has low health and NP doesn't have items to escape.

Peppo_oPaccio
<Veteran>

Awards Showcase
Show more awards

Memorable (70)
Posts: 1351
Steam: Peppo_o'Paccio
View My Blog
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by TheAmazingComicBookGuy » December 23, 2013 7:46am | Report
You guys have no teamfight, and while the push is really good your OWN team is vulnerable to push to. Every single one of your heroes need farm (except for kotl, but he eventually would love to have his makansm to). Your team gives the enemy like no other choice than to push themselves.

edit: here is what I would make of it.
Keeper of the Light: support
Phantom Lancer: carry
Death Prophet: mid
Chen/ Enchantress/ Nature's Prophet: jungle
Broodmother/ Clockwerk: offlane

either pick nature's prophet from the original team, 2 is to much.
As if for push themed lineups having 2 or max 3 pushers is enough, the reason Clockwerk is there is because he is hard to push into if counterpush comes, he is not so farm dependent and he (unlike all other options) makes it possible to make pickoffs

TheAmazingComicBookGuy


Notable (7)
Posts: 204
View My Blog
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by KoDyAbAbA » December 23, 2013 8:20am | Report
the team setup you have shown needs a lot of farm and 0 teamfight potential.
the right comp (in my noob opinion) would be:

Keeper of the Light support
Juggernaut carry
Queen of Pain mid (cause i like her :3)
Nature's Prophet jungle
Clockwerk offlane

KoDyAbAbA


Memorable (65)
Posts: 2366
Steam: Sir Rat-A-Lot
View My Blog
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Xyrus » December 23, 2013 9:53am | Report
I would think this lineup is easy to shut down.

Phantom Lancer has a Harder time laning now, due to the changes to Tranquil Boots so he would be easy to Harrass, since the only thing protecting him would be Illuminate. If I picked a good Aggressive Tri-lane with a good Early Pusher, I'm confident I could CRUSH him and take his Tower easily, since I wouldn't expect a Dragon Knight or a Broodmother to be capable of helping out early on, and a Nature's Prophet would only be able to do so much. I'd also make sure, I had something that could go into the Jungle to make Nature's Prophet sad right from the start. Something like Lifestealer, Enchantress and Crystal Maiden would be my choice.

As for Countering Broodmother in lane, I would probably go with something Tanky that can take out the Spiderlings with ease, something like Kunkka or Axe, without the Spiderlings, Broodmother isn't a threat to your Towers. As for going against Dragon Knight, there's a few options. Personally, I would pick Razor, not only would Static Link make it harder for Dragon Knight to get Last Hits, but once he gets an Aghanim's Scepter, he'll be capable of Melting Towers with Eye of the Storm.

Xyrus
<Moderator>

Awards Showcase
Show more awards

Established (104)
Posts: 2429
Steam: Xyrus
View My Blog
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by L0bstz0r » December 23, 2013 10:28am | Report
what you also have to take into consideration, when building a team is, if the team is able to stand its ground in every stage of the game. Considering that Phantom Lancer and Nature's Prophet both need quite some time to get their game goin you would need 3 heroes which can fend of enemy pushes and also kinda pressure the opposing carry ...and Keeper of the Light , Broodmother and Dragon Knight simply arent aggressive enough of a setup. So as you can see this team is far too easy to shut down during the first ~20 minutes of the game.... Just think about goin up against a setup like: Earth spirit, Mirana, Bane, Puck and <random carry>

L0bstz0r

Awards Showcase
Show more awards

Notable (12)
Posts: 343
Steam: L0bstz0r
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Timminatorr » December 23, 2013 1:24pm | Report
A wild earthshaker appears.

A full on push lineup sounds good on paper, but a one sided team doesnt turn out well usually.
Also a jungle prophet is not that good IMO. Mainly becouse he is so greedy and cant really function as a support. So if you pick him you will only have 1 support. If you are going to get a greedy jungler pick an enigma.
There is also a problem with picking lancer, he isnt a pushing hero. He takes long to get online and doesnt add anything to your early push.

My pushing lineup will be:

Mid: Pugna: this is the MOST IMPORTANT PICK. He brings guarunteed push.

Carry: Juggernaut: but only when paired with either a chen or enchantress if chen isnt possible. Or else any carry who comes online quick maybe even a lone druid. Or put pugna safelane and run a good mid.

Jungle: either the mentioned chen/enchantress or enigma.

Offlane: any solid hero really, clockwerk, natures prophet, timbersaw exetera. Or even a tidehunter just to make the enemy even more afraid or defending. The main use of ravage is mainly the fear factor.

Support: Crystal maiden for the aura is great, but you could get any solid support that complements your chosen heroes.

Timminatorr
<Editor>

Awards Showcase
Show more awards

Memorable (57)
Posts: 2376
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by samukobo » December 23, 2013 11:26pm | Report
A pushing lineup is completely fine, just make sure you have stuff other than push.

Nature's Prophet should replace Broodmother in the offlane, he's stronger than her in terms of laning and will gain more experience, and is a better hero overall ( Broodmother kind of sucks right now tbh).

I would take away Phantom Lancer and replace him with Weaver due to the latter being a rather stronger pick in the early game, and being a more versatile carry overall (and to reduce the team's weakness to Earthshaker), while also replacing Keeper of the Light with something actually stronger as a support. A Crystal Maiden, probably.

Since I have CM I would probably ditch the whole jungler thing, but if I needed a jungler I would definitely take Chen. If not (and I can run a trilane) I would get Venomancer or even an Earthshaker - the team would benefit from more teamfight powers.

So the resulting team would have Nature's Prophet, Dragon Knight, Chen, Weaver and Crystal Maiden.

Note that the Chen can be substituted by something else.
Quoted:

ヽ༼ຈلຈ༽ノ

samukobo
<Editor>


Remarkable (28)
Posts: 647
View My Blog

Quick Reply

Please log in or sign up to post!

DOTAFire is the place to find the perfect build guide to take your game to the next level. Learn how to play a new hero, or fine tune your favorite DotA hero’s build and strategy.

Copyright © 2019 DOTAFire | All Rights Reserved