Forum » General Discussion » Agility Heroes Like Clinkz are Inferior 78 posts - page 6 of 8 |
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If strength is the counter to intelligence then please explain
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![]() SuperNova Notable (16) Posts: 630 Steam: BaconBorn View My Blog |
Kyfoid
wrote:
WHAT WORKINGS? LOL! Itemization, different stat gains, and the fact that almost all heroes have nukes and only even a few intelligence heroes are burst heavy. ![]() |
![]() Atlas <Retired Admin> Established (117) Posts: 1683 View My Blog |
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![]() SuperNova Notable (16) Posts: 630 Steam: BaconBorn View My Blog |
Kyfoid
wrote:
Not wrong. If you want to take more magic damage and fair off better against intellegence oriented attacks, you get more life and life recovery. Agility, as said before, does not help you take more magic damage better, it gives you more armor and more armor is more effective against fighting a strength hero who's style is more basic attack oriented.
Why do I need to take magic damage? I could just stop them from casting their spells(disables) or be immune to spells(bkb/omniknight repel). Kyfoid
wrote:
I know the perspecitve from which you say that I'm wrong, but under that perspective there would be no reason or purpose for categorizing strength, intellegence, and agility heros in to separate categories, aside from the mere 1 damage that they get per stat of that attribute which does not define any real difference between them.
You assume that all heros are just randomly designed and different, and if that was the case then this would be the poorest design philosophy I have ever heard of, but if you have substantial evidence of this, I won't discredit your theory because the games these days are starting to really suck bad. Ahhh, yes it is exactly as you said, though this poor design is what made the game good. You seem to keep comparing Dota 2 to starcraft and rpg elements to whole of dota. You should meet ![]() ![]() ![]() Protip, ditch Clinkz and play Medusa. She's the tankiest agi you can find. |
![]() nryn Notable (1) Posts: 146 Steam: rice_in_a_bowl |
Ok so clinkz has the spell strafe.
If an opponent gets a hood of defiance which reduces damage from spells by 30% are they reducing damage from strafe by 30% on every attack while it is active? Searing arrow is also known as "physical" damage which means that the damage dealt is based on the opponent's armor... does a hood of defiance even further reduce damage from searing arrow on top of armor? Apparently there is no place for a hood of defiance at all against clinkz... Whether we are talking about nuke spells, damage bursts, or magic damage over time... clinkz doesn't have a magical attack what so ever and that is pretty much just flat ******ed. I don't think the game designers are that stupid. Surely there is actually a philosophy of design that takes in to account the function of all heros. |
![]() Kyfoid Notable (9) Posts: 625 |
nryn
wrote:
Protip, ditch Clinkz and play Medusa. She's the tankiest agi you can find. Protip: Ditch a character if it isn't as good as another That's a bit degrading to the term professional and those who are labeled as such. |
![]() Kyfoid Notable (9) Posts: 625 |
Not sure if this thread should continue, DotA is not like Starcraft, while similar in some aspects of the game it's more complicated than that. The points you're trying to make have been done in pubs long before LoL/HoN/DOTA2 were being made. It was clear being a tanky
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() It's not about attribute vs attribute, it's all about the heroes vs another hero, that's where one of the core gameplay comes in. Team composition, strategy, etc. It's not as simple as attr vs attr and I still don't understand why you're continuing to stay AGI is inferior. There are pro and cons to all heroes and you cannot just lockdown on one type of hero and say they're inferior. If this pointless circle-jerk continues with pointless arguments about game-design etc then I'll have the mod/admin lock this thread. It's clear you don't know this game well and you ignore what some people say and ask/talk about something else which is blatantly clear if you've played long enough or did a bit of google research. Your whole arguement is that if it was a straight up 5v5 where both parties charge at each other, this is not some battle of troy thing. Btw why don't you link some of the games you've played clinkz with and we'll see what's wrong.
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![]() Nubtrain <Veteran> Memorable (58) Posts: 1078 Steam: Nubtrain View My Blog |
Nubtrain, your failure to acknowledge well made points is plain. You are not open minded one single bit and this sort of igorance needs to stop on forums, otherwise, none of us will progress our understanding of what clearly are controversial issues. My advice is to stop ruining it for the rest of us because if people understood and played the game properly we might actually give meaningful feedback on these games to better the future.
With that said, where are YOUR replays with clinkz? I'm talking about a combination of things here while you are just singling me out for agility alone... that's simply not fair. When you say "It was clear that a tanky clinkz with a bit more damage didn't work" what are you even refering too? I can understand to a degree why the game is based on hero vs hero... but do you know why the game is designed like that? It's so that all heros can seem as different as possible... But in regard to core gameplay, this is foolish design. To a degree it can be hero vs hero and to a degree it can and should, and needs to be generalized because we want to play a game based in improvizational skill, not a nerds one way burden... there is absolutely no enjoyment in that on the competative level. Like I said time and time again which you fail to acknowledge, agility heros like clinkz, the ones that are least tank are simply at a disadvantage... There is no incentive for any one of the 3 types of heroes to go strictly down an attribute that is not of their own aside from clinkz himself (which I explained earlier) Intellegence heroes spam spells, agility does hardly anything for survival unless you get life steal to function with the faster attack speed which is exactly why my build makes sense and works... and strength chars take loads of magic damage. Clinkz is a low life agility hero and is forced to start strength first in most cases and make meaningful use out of those items collectively in cooperation with his prime ability skeleton walk. Denial is a drug and to deny that strength heros take more damage from intellegence heroes and agility heros take more damage from strength heros is more then denial, it is denial of blaitantly obvious facts. My best advice is that you seek medical help immediately for mental treatment. |
![]() Kyfoid Notable (9) Posts: 625 |
Kyfoid
wrote:
snip Why say someone else is delusional to points already made when you haven't read a single thing anyone has put in this thread. :| Also, Nubtrain, Agi carries don't always exceed Str carries in damage either. I fully farmed Tiny can take on most Agi carries, as can a farmed Sven or CK. ![]() |
![]() Atlas <Retired Admin> Established (117) Posts: 1683 View My Blog |
Kyfoid
wrote:
Nubtrain, your failure to acknowledge well made points is plain. You are not open minded one single bit and this sort of igorance needs to stop on forums, otherwise, none of us will progress our understanding of what clearly are controversial issues. My advice is to stop ruining it for the rest of us because if people understood and played the game properly we might actually give meaningful feedback on these games to better the future. Same goes for you, your first issue you brought up was to bring some different/creative gameplay to ![]() Kyfoid
wrote:
I've been trying to take this game competitively seriously and I really only want to play the character clinkz because he seems like an underdog. I've wanted to find out if there were any creative approaches with him as well as role fulfillment which could make his gameplay as significant as the others. You offered your own idea on how to play ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Kyfoid
wrote:
I still stand by my point though that, sure, he might suppose to be weak, but his skills don't support his harassment role very well... It's clear with this that you don't know ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() You also made a point about stats being inferior to the other stats, that really depends on the heroes you play. If you're ![]() ![]() Kyfoid
wrote:
Who really wants to just fricken sit and watch the characters that their opponent's choose before choosing your own? Who really wants to know every fricken detail of the game in order to be able to take it remotely seriously? That's why there is League of Legends, you can click the big red play button and pick Blind Draft. Although... are you serious? In any competitive game, if you want to be taken seriously, you need to know everything, even League of Legends has that criteria, it's the nature of this type of game. We're not saying you cannot build strength items on AGILITY heroes but we're saying that for ![]() ![]() ![]() Kyfoid
wrote:
Learn from new games like torchlight where agility actually increases crit chance. And don't make the chance to crit so luck based, 20% is hardly a reliable %. 33 % is the perfect degree of reliability... then tone down the crit damage from 175% to something like 140% damage. The 33.333333% chance figure is a great figure because it's the same odds as winning in black jack. You can't rely on winning... But you can rely on getting lucky. There's still a spark of reliability. You also get att.damage along with the crit chance, you don't rely on the crit to be effective, Daedulas provides the highest amount of damage to gain for ![]() ![]() What if you got CC'd in a teamfight? With that item build you thought up earlier, it is then meaningless because you wouldn't be able to 1: Survive it 2: You couldn't have dealt as much damage as you could have 3: The lifesteal is then useless Your job as ![]() Kyfoid
wrote:
I hate people who write long posts expecting you to read what they write when they demonstrate that they have read hardly anything of what one's self has written. What the other guy said is true, that's smells of total hypocrisy Kyfoid
wrote:
Sadly, people still cling to the idea that he needs to follow a glass cannon approach to be effective but I say that do to the unclarity of his role, people are missing out on games that can be more enjoyable with him, not saying that this makes it balanced. That's the only role he can fulfill, if he cannot do so then what's the point of picking him, if you weren't going to pick ![]() ![]() ![]() Kyfoid
wrote:
Not wrong. If you want to take more magic damage and fair off better against intellegence oriented attacks, you get more life and life recovery. Agility, as said before, does not help you take more magic damage better, it gives you more armor and more armor is more effective against fighting a strength hero who's style is more basic attack oriented. I've said this before, it's about hero vs hero not about a prime attribute vs anothers. In that essence, ![]() ![]() Kyfoid
wrote:
Ok so clinkz has the spell strafe. If an opponent gets a hood of defiance which reduces damage from spells by 30% are they reducing damage from strafe by 30% on every attack while it is active? Searing arrow is also known as "physical" damage which means that the damage dealt is based on the opponent's armor... does a hood of defiance even further reduce damage from searing arrow on top of armor? Apparently there is no place for a hood of defiance at all against clinkz... Whether we are talking about nuke spells, damage bursts, or magic damage over time... clinkz doesn't have a magical attack what so ever and that is pretty much just flat ******ed. I don't think the game designers are that stupid. Surely there is actually a philosophy of design that takes in to account the function of all heros. That pretty much confirms that you don't have a solid understanding of the game, Searing Arrow is physical if it wasn't, it wouldn't work on towers. ![]() Kyfoid
wrote:
Nubtrain, your failure to acknowledge well made points is plain. You are not open minded one single bit and this sort of igorance needs to stop on forums, otherwise, none of us will progress our understanding of what clearly are controversial issues. My advice is to stop ruining it for the rest of us because if people understood and played the game properly we might actually give meaningful feedback on these games to better the future. Oh I've read them, you fail to realize that you don't have a solid understanding of the game and you're putting forth your own ideas as a savior to ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Kyfoid
wrote:
Like I said time and time again which you fail to acknowledge, agility heros like clinkz, the ones that are least tank are simply at a disadvantage... There is no incentive for any one of the 3 types of heroes to go strictly down an attribute that is not of their own aside from clinkz himself (which I explained earlier) Intellegence heroes spam spells, agility does hardly anything for survival unless you get life steal to function with the faster attack speed which is exactly why my build makes sense and works... and strength chars take loads of magic damage. and I've responded that DOTA and all games that are similar are not so black and white. There are roles, playstyles, how you've positioned yourself, who've you targeted first, etc but you ignore that and make it a clear black and white problem. Some intellegence heroes can spam and provide utility but most lack survival since they don't start building that until late game. If they don't cast their spells, they're useless so that's why ![]() Some strength heroes are tanky, can initiate really well compared to other types but they wouldn't be dealing as much damage. Strengh heroes can also semi-carry or hard-carry like ![]() Agility heroes although they are squishy can dish out a lot of damage compared to the others in a shorter time frame. A lot of agility heroes have some sort of niche to win over others with it's an gap-closer/escape mechanism, utility, raw damage, for example ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() BUT as you can see there is so much diversity among all roles and its not confined to a black and white system. Every attribute can fulfill each role and you pick heroes for their assets not based on their prime attributes. Meaning, having a discussion about what stats are better than another is pointless. Kyfoid
wrote:
Denial is a drug and to deny that strength heros take more damage from intellegence heroes and agility heros take more damage from strength heros is more then denial, it is denial of blaitantly obvious facts. My best advice is that you seek medical help immediately for mental treatment. Same goes for you, hypocrisy is an issue and tends to blind people to make themselves feel better, I'm worried about your future since... Kyfoid
wrote:
What you just said brought nothing to the table that isn't already known, you're just stating the obvious, you completely neglected the concept I was providing Kyfoid
wrote:
Sorry, I will not respond to people who are just trying to provoke and insinuate non existent troll attempts. Have a nice day. Here's my match history for ![]() https://dotabuff.com/players/33075429/matches?hero=clinkz&game_mode=&match_type=real Care to link yours? When I asked you for some replays of ![]() Btw how was I ruining it for others? I don't go around the forums trolling anyone or hurting anything unless it's justified
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![]() Nubtrain <Veteran> Memorable (58) Posts: 1078 Steam: Nubtrain View My Blog |
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