How Viable is a Position 1 Underlord?

Hey guys, BK here. I know it's been a while since I've been active on the site due to school and work but I'm trying to get back in with the community again. So I propose this question to you today, because I love seeing constructive discussion in this community.

So the title says it all, would you ever, under any circumstance run Underlord as a Safe Lane farming carry?

I think he could work well in a similar way that Abaddon can be good as a mid-game carry. He has the ability to flash farm waves with enough points into his Firestorm. His Pit of Malice can help with escapes and also lockdown in teamfights. His Aura and natural tankiness would make ganking him hard and with enough ganks he can really start racking up the damage with Atrophy Aura.

Go something along the lines of

- Tango
- Quelling Blade
- Stout Shield

into

- Boots of Speed
- Battle Fury
- Power Treads
- BKB/Heart of Tarrasque
- AC
- Satanic

Just a crazy idea, but what are your thoughts?

Hey Brax, nice to see you. I should probably tell you on the other social media where we are connected, but Episode 1 of our little project will be happening after all, as the new leads have given me their lines. Now, for your thing.

Underlord's skillset tells that he is very dependent on levels, and not very dependent on gold. The problem is that he will have trouble dealing damage in fights. The Atrophy Aura can help him get some damage, but it requires that some people start dying, and he can't do that on his own. Because of this, if you're gonna run him in a core position, consider him mid with auras, and pair him with a longer ranged damage dealer, perhaps Sniper or Drow, and I think you will consistently get better results, more damage will be done, towers will die faster, and there is a much lower chance of you getting kited to death.

Like Visage, VS, Axe, Beastmaster, or SK, he can be run in higher positions, but I think pos 1 you want avoid because if enemies focus you down, you lose a lot of your strengths:

You can't annoy the enemies with your aura and low cooldown spells while pulling a Morton's Fork on them, since most of them are not gonna be willing to blow important spells on a hero with low net worth.
You can't use your Dark Rift to save people, you will mostly be using it to save yourself, and you will mostly be on your own (farming unless you're deathballing in which case why do you need to be safelane and not mid) which means there will be a lot less of the intended uses.
The return is that you do a bit more damage, but it is really worth it?

And I actually just got done watching a game where this was attempted. The rule is... do not go late, and do not go against long ranged carries, you will be so miserable.
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2594324667
https://yasp.co/matches/2594324667/purchases
This shows that he went VG, Armlet, Radiance, Blink, Shivas, and dude farmed fast, but he was unable to defeat the enemies who had harder carries since him and his team could not take the base mainly because of the godly micro skills of the Arc Warden in that game.

For alternatives for that fast farming midgame carry, I would recommend: Leshrac (not as tanky, does way more damage, pushes way faster, has better crowd control), Bristleback (does not have the ability to teleport his allies to another lane, but tankier and does more damage), or Necrophos (gets way more dangerous as fights go on with Sadist and Heartstopper than Atrophy Aura, is less tanky early on). I am having a hard time seeing him as especially effective as a safelaner, but maybe someone will throw some lightning into this jar.

The time you will need to get battlefury is insane. Its better you simply get a iron talon, stack hard camp and use firestorm to farm. This will get your core up really easily.

I know people get tempted by 40% damage reduction ate game and my damage items are not favoured right now. So if you think you wanna knowck that morphling's damage to 180 at level 25, sure go ahead and wreck that idjit.

I will, however, advise that you rat with him, going into mjollnir moonshard desolator and necronomicon. Aint no one gonna know what hit them

While I do think Abyssal Underlord is a core, I'd not even once play him as either a mid or as a hard carry. His skillset practically screams offlaner - wave disruption/long ranged farm? Tanky? Screws with the carry? Can trade hits with supports? Scales with levels rather than gold? Seriously, he's an offlaner guys.

I think this is the most appropriate answer here:

http://i.imgur.com/7gCit5z.png

Also this actually: http://i.imgur.com/d2p7bTs.png

I do agree with Tera though, he kinda screams offlane/utility.

Necronomicon


Seriously


GG no re.

He is the new beatmaster

Necrobook is not that good on him, all it does is synergise with the stats it gives, since he needs both STR and INT and improve his push which is already insane with Firestorm and Pit of Malice. He has no insane lockdown or steroid for the necro warriors. By the time he gets into melee range his pit already expires, and if you get blink (hands downhis best item), then you can't get in hits yourself between the Pit of Malice and Firestorm cast points.


His best item by far is Blink Dagger. Blink into Pit of Malice is amazing, and you can do that every 12 seconds. Notice something incidentally? Firestorm, Pit of Malice and Blink Dagger all share the same cooldown.


Underlord is able to do well just with Arcane Boots (not really necesarry, helps with the mana issues early on though) and Blink Dagger. Anything else on him at that point would be totally luxury. As a third item I'd go for either an Aether Lens or a Rod of Atos. First one helps with the Pit of Malice cast range, and the second boosts up the Firestorm effectiveness because you can keep people inside it (not like you can't do it with Pit of Malice too, but you only get off 4/6 waves AT BEST with it (mostly 3/6, depends on where they're caught in the pit).


He excels at disrupting teamfights and has amazing smoke ganks with Dark Rift. Everyone sees him as a rat and he can be one, it's just that he doesn't really have the damage to do it and needs something/one to port onto. He best goes with heroes that have massive teamfight abilities and need to get close to enemy heroes ( Sand King, Enigma, Tidehunter) because he can just Dark Rift them in even while channeling (the Sand King combination is quite strong).


All in all, he's a great pos 3 and 4, but I'd argue the skill build is much more different depending on how you play him. 3 will max Firestorm first, 4 would max Pit of Malice first for the extra lockdown ( Firestorm would be good as well if the other support has enough lockdown).

Saltstan

I was talking about rat Lord.

But blink if you say so. But he does have 750 cast range on both of those. I would suggest a force staff

If playing Rat Lord, which itens should i do for mana sustain ? Bottle ?
will do Power Treads Maelstorm Blink Dagger Desolator

He rats far better with Atrophy Aura and an Assault Cuirass than necrobook, if you really want to do that. With Force Staff if you force yourself in your enemy can use their mobility too by the time you get to cast anything.

Remember he has a really high cast point on both Pit of Malice and Firestorm. And Force Staff also has a higher cooldown unless you upgrade to Hurricane Pike. At that point I do the same thing as you do with Pike with half the cost and still -2 cooldown on Blink Dagger.