Yet another Sniper Discussion.

True, but unless you're going for deathball strat, I don't think you get any advantage from this. If you go ealry mek and push towers, he's a bit better than both of them but not significanthly I think.



Both are single target right-clickers. Clinkz has 3 damage steroids and one HP steroid. Sniper has no steroid whatsoever, just 950 attack range. Sniper being better in teamfight than Clinkz is based purely on assuming that nobody initiates on Sniper. Which is just not going to be the case.
Otherwise Clinkz will deal way more damage and survive longer. And this is true at any stage of the game.
Besides Clinkz has a built-in initiation skill and Sniper has none.



Medusa is a lane autowin. Literally. Mystic Snake is just that good. You can't do any better than that.

Clinkz is about the same lane presence as Sniper, good harasser, less range but way more damage. Clinkz gets free last hits with his W though, while Sniper really struggles to get CS since he has no base damage.



As I said, Medusa is a lane autowin whether you play her safe lane or mid.

Sniper doesn't win most mid matchups. Generally he wins in terms of harassment until level 6 and at level 6 he just gets killed. Most solo mids have high mobility and burst damage and are perfectly capable of solo-killing a Sniper at 6. Qop? TA? Storm? Puck? When they hit 6 Sniper is food.




Medusa is the best late game sieger in the game no contest. But she's also a very good sieger/pusher 20 minutes into the game if you want to get early towers. Both are good, I don't think either is better for this.

Clinkz is more of a rat dota hero but he melts a tower in literally 4 seconds. If you want to get early towers he's awesome at this as well. If you have an edge in the early game and want to go for the push he's one of the best heroes honestly, not many heroes do that much tower damage early game.



No, he can't. Unless he has late game mana items like Skadi. He only has the mana pool for TWO uses of Assassinate. That's a common misconception, Assassinate only works to kill fleeing heroes and that's really it, unless you build a Scythe of Vyse on him or something, he doesn't have the mana to spam it in any way.

Using Assassinate 3 times at max level costs 1125 mana.



True.



Actually, he relies *far more* on snowballing than Clinkz
Clinkz is not the best farmer but at least he can clear creep waves and jungle camps decently with his high damage and Death Pact.
Sniper CANNOT FARM in any way so his only way to get items is to farm heroes.
If Sniper doesn't snowball, he gets outfarmed hard and he's just a sitting duck.
If Clinkz doesn't snowball, he can just farm and split push like a normal carry.

In terms of late game scaling, you have a hero with 3 steroids and an initiation skill with 630 attack range against a hero with no steroid and 950 attack range.




Two ults maximum and then he's out of mana. Then the guy urns up and you just did nothing.




No, no, I was comparing purely to other *carries*. Pure nukers like Lina are a completely different type.

Like if I want to pick a carry to snowball by walking around nuking people, I'm picking Tiny. Or Meepo. Or Shadow Fiend. Sniper isn't a very good ganker. Tiny has a nuke combo that deals ~1400 pure damage equivalent. and literally oneshots squishy heroes as many times as you want xD



Troll Warlord actually. And Troll is really good at low levels and a really good 5-man push hero.

He's a bit more viable than he was...but still quite a limited hero. He can be a nightmare if the opposition lacks space-closers and he gets a lot of farm/levels - excellent stat growth and rapid attack speed + Headshot is pretty damned unpleasant.

However, I'd agree with most of the criticisms - slow, squishy, lacks farming speed, utility and quite position dependent too.

Not sure about his "laning power" - sure he can be very effective when he's got an armchair ride from good supports against one hero, but he wouldn't be my choice in a 3v3 lane. (same with Medusa, sorry hamster)

Ultimately he's still a bit of a one-trick pony and can struggle to be effective. With the right heroes or the ever-present Blink Dagger he can easily end up as food. I'd say he's a situational pickup that can work if the opposition are highly kite-able.

I picked up a Centaur Warrunner when I saw Sniper on the other team earlier - didn't end up laning against him directly ( Return is hilarious), but even the presence of a skill like Stampede suddenly means my entire team is a threat to him. Yup, he was food.

Doesn't Medusa wreck aggressive trilanes with snake? I mean she's literally unkillable with shield and ult and she can spam snake all day long.

Besides, who does aggressive trilanes in pubs, besides Xyrus? xD

I was going to reply to your post Hamster with a massive wall of text, but tbh if I did that we'd be doing this till the end of time xD

I can probably say it more easily;
The early game power of Shrapnel is relevent because it basically means you are garunteed one of the 100/100 runes. Which is huge.

Sniper is a mid kind of like QoP. He wants to take an early in lane advantage through harrass and leverage that into hitting 6 first, and thus probably solo'killing the othr guy. The combination of Headshot and Shrapnel means that when you go in for CS, Sniper can realistically take off 150-200 or more of your health, depending on the level of Shrapnel. You are right that he can get bursted down when a lot of heroes hit 6 (But tbf, those mids are meant to do that. Hit 6 and kill something. I will also say he does lose horribly to QoP). I'd also say you forgot to consider how Sniper has a pretty decent SF match-up if he wins out on the early harrassment (Which is entirely possible).

I'll also admit Sniper's newfound competitive popularity is in part to do with how the meta has shaped itself rather than the hero being innately fabulous. (Big bad Brad dropping off has helped him an awful awful lot).

But I do think you are overly focused somewhat on this idea that Sniper is just a hero with 950 range auto-attacks, and brings nothing else. He does more than that now. Likewise, I think you have the idea that simply because you can jump and gap close on Sniper it makes him inferior to other carry - Proper initiation on heroes in general will kill them off. Centaur Warrunner is an exception to that, and does make Sniper much worse but that's because the hero is the definitive hard-counter to Sniper as it were.

Likewise I must again stress; Sniper is not the only hero in the game who sucks when he gets counter-picked.

Essentially I just think Sniper is not longer the situational fifth pick he was, and is now more like a 2nd phase pick or ban hero.

Ults are meaningless in Aggresive Tri-Lanes. They're won or lost long before you hit lvl6. Mystic Snake is good, but not game changing in 3 vs 3. She can find Farm in 3 vs 3, and 1 point in Mana Shield will help her stay alive...but that's about it...

Do Bot games count?

I never said that the only thing Sniper does is have 950 range autoattacks. I completely agree that Shrapnel + Assassinate gives him good early game presence. What I said is that 950 range autoattacks is the only things that he has and that *other heroes don't do better than him*. I think every other aspect of the hero besides his attack range is just done better by other picks (harassment, early game presence, push ability, snowballing with nukes, etc).

Actually Sniper only reliably wins mid in terms of harassment against melee mids. Sure if you're playing Kunkka or Ember Spirit mid for example, you'll take 200 damage everytime you go for CS. You'll still solo kill him easily when you hit 6, but before that, true, you get pressured hard.

However 600 range mids don't care about Sniper's harass. Since the creeps stand between them and Sniper, if Sniper tries to harass, the creeps will aggro him. So if Sniper comes forward to harass he'll take creep damage and expose himself to be an easy kill. And if he sits back and tries to compete for CS he'll play at a big disadvantage since he has about 10-20 less base damage than most other mids.

Actually SF beats Sniper in 1 v 1 mid. In competitive they pick Sniper as a counter to SF mid because he's good at setting up kills on SF *with the help of roaming supports*. But if there's no roaming, in just the 1 v 1 matchup, SF wins easily. Sniper has no base damage, so SF will get easy souls in the first 2 waves and snowball the lane from there by getting every last hit and deny (and also every rune). Sniper can't contest runes from SF because SF can just solo kill him at rune spots. 2 minutes in, you have a SF with 90 base damage against a Sniper with 45 base damage -> GG.
Essentially if it's just the 1v1 matchup, SF double razes the creeps, gets the rune, and Sniper is forced to last hit under tower all the time and gets no farm.
Again, if you want to counter SF mid, sure you can pick Sniper and hope your team roams on him at the right moment (but you're playing a pub, so it won't happen =). Or you can just pick Templar Assassin and get the easiest lane and kills of your life. Your call xD

He's not a bad hero, but there are better heroes.
Just like Sange and Yasha is not a bad item, but Manta Style or Eye of Skadi are just better items, so you end up never buying SnY, ever.

Hamster still can't admit Sniper is fine hehehe... If he is paired with baller come-at-me-bro type heroes( Axe or Bristleback for example) he is a pain in the *** because doesn't need much to farm effectively, win a couple of early-game fights, take some towers, and you gucci.

Sniper is a hero that is great if not countered. However... he is counter quite easily.

No, the only way to look at bot games is within the client