VenoMaster

Could you give us a match id to see this build? I'd really like to watch one or two, I'm quite interested.

okay. I'll make sure to follow you when you go pro.

Oh... ok. I guess, since it's pub, you can pretty much do anything. Did I tell you I built heart, agh's, mek, pipe, sheepstick, and a rapier on CM once? It's amazing.

I've been playing him as support and soft carry depending on the team make up. I do not tank. I use the blade mail if I come into a 1v1 situation that I cant avoid or to deter the enemy from attacking me during those first few crucial seconds of team battles so that I can survive long enough to support the tanks and carries. I am definitively getting higher than 200 gold per minute. I am solo pubbing and ranking. I've never played as a team. I thought this build could be outside the box enough that it may give others a different view on using Veno or even other Heros beyond the normal use cases that occur over time.

Ill give you a situation, in pub matches, where Veno is more soft carry than support. I played a match where we had a decent team but someone got Dazzle. In this case, Dazzle is much better support than Veno so I went more support/carry grabbing gold and exp and getting items. It worked out very well. We destroyed that team. I still got the mek with overlapped with Daz's heal ability and I supplied mana back to the team with the arcane boots and assisted kills with Nova. I got there with this build. As with most things, Dota is fluid, I cant always go this build 100% but its a cool, fun, winning template with which to win with Veno but it is unconventional in its use of Veno to get there.

I appreciate asking and wanting to know more! Using Veno to try and completely carry the team is not going to work though, Veno will be one of the reasons a team wins but not the dominating Hero that overpowers and wins the game and gets all the hero kills.

I could be crazy or misunderstood, I dunno. In my world and solo pubbing its working.

I have a question: What do you play Veno as? Most people play him as a support/lane support that can push and deal out massive DoT. However, the Blade Mail makes it seem like you play him as a tank. And besides, do you actually survive enough to use it? I mean, I''ve never played with this build before, so I don't know... A support should have around 200 gold per minute so... 1450+2200+500+150+875+2300= 7475 gold until you reach mek. 7475 gold/200 gpm... You'd take 47 minutes to get mek. That's pretty late, IMO. Then the scepter would come at 67 minutes, and the bloodstone would come at 84 minutes. See the problem with that?

Unless you're playing Veno carry (which I haven't tried), I don't think the Blade Mail will be much use.

The blade mail supports me living longer and surviving during the team battles and if I come into a 1v1 situation. This in turn supports a better opportunity to use the nova, leverage the mek, the arcane boots, and soon aquila aura. while laying down wards and gales.

I appreciate that you do not play Veno this way and I am not running around as lone wolf thinking Im playing COD. I usually have 25+ assists and a nice k/d ratio but not leading the team in kills. The few matches. I thought I would share how I have been playing and winning and not winning because I carried the team but because I supported the team through support characteristics and held my own 1v1 and early on.

I do appreciate your input though and I am going to swapped bloodstone with aquila. I am looking forward to rocking it out this weekend!

I'm definitely getting the vibe, I need to switch out the bloodstone for aquila haha. I still think that planning death vs just dying is a solid way to think about playing. Maybe outside of pub matches this build is ****. I've only every played pub matches and I also am awesome at support this build. I am not running around solo tanking guys. I also change the build at the beginning if I have to get the courier but I don't have to most of the time. Again this may be due to pub matches.

I am going to start building to aquila instead of the bloodstone. I appreciate everyone's advice and I will check back in to let everyone, that cares, how it is going!

This guide!!!! My eyes!!!!

Look at all the above reasons. Bloodstone is a waste of money, just arcane boots + basi will dix your mana problems.
And if you really want the regen, atleast get something usefull like a scythe of vyse.

Mantle doesnt make any sense, get clarities. Blademail, same, get something that helps your team, nobody likes those useless lonewolf venomancers who are pushing 24/7.

Skillbuild doesnt make any sense. Get dat gale. You shouldnt even use wards in lane becouse it ****s up the lane equilibrium. And you give up gold since lvl 1 and 2 wards suck.



Sorry but the guide just looks like it was made by someone who has never played the game, but had to make a guide after theorycrafting a lot alone.

Sorry, this is just plain wrong - you can't feed as a form of regen! Even sacrificing yourself to neutrals is extremely iffy due to the amount of XP you miss out on (time spent dead, time spent walking back to lane). It's very standard to get a set of Tango and a Healing Salve on pretty much every hero at the start. You need to start doing this - it's not a style thing - you're hindering your own development as a player. Also, as a support, you should really be buying an Animal Courier.

On the Mantle of Intelligence issue - first of all Blade Mail isn't a great item on him anyway due to lack of HP, and you don't need to rush it on him. That 6 intelligence will give you:

6 x 13 mana = 78
0.04 x 6 mana regen = 0.24/sec (14.4 per minute)

Over the first 5 minutes of the game that works out to exactly 150 mana (78 starting + 72 regen). A 50 gold Clarity gives you the same 150 mana back. Ring of Basilius offers much better regen (0.65 per sec), plus damage, and armour/mana regen for your allies. Make it into a Ring of Aquila and you've got a bunch of stats too, including 3 intelligence - it costs <1000 gold so isn't comparable to 5000g+ Bloodstone.

Eek Poison Nova - killing 2 heroes isn't worth the mana cost!? :(

You seem a nice guy and you've taken the time and effort to write up your thoughts - I really am trying to help here rather than be nasty, so please take my comments as intended!

Maxing sting and wards is perfectly fine, as long as you don't spam them in lane and steal your carry's farm like noob Venos do (this is really infuriating ^^)

Not getting Poison Nova early makes perfect sense, it's a teamfight spell after all.

But you REALLY need one level of Venomous Gale ASAP...because, well, that's how you get kills. The big thing about gale is that you need only one level in it to have the disable, leveling it up only increases the damage.

People usually say "get gale at lvl 1", but honestly if you want you can get sting or wards at 1 just to be annoying in lane, because that's what Veno is best at (^^). If you're not going for first blood you don't need gale at 1. It's OK if you get gale at level 2 or 3 if you want, but at level 9 it's just missing out on WAY too many kills. Besides, gale is the closest thing you have to an escape mechanism, it can really save your life.

You are going to die, it is inevitable. At least it is for me. I am trying to build this outcome into my build making it a way that I can leverage instead of just reacting to it.

I am thinking that death can have a positive impact on my build when I take control of it. Yes the enemy will get gold and I will lose xp in the death cooldown but I can make it up and more due to the increased mana back to max and leveraging Veno's strengths.

You are going to die, it is inevitable. At least it is for me. I am trying to find a way to plan it into my build instead of it being a situation that I am reacting to. I'm not saying feed them.