Juggerswagger's Omnislash

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Forum » Theory Crafting » Juggerswagger's Omnislash 28 posts - page 3 of 3
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Xyrus » November 10, 2014 7:18pm | Report
*Non-chalantly ignores the usual unrelated "Hard Carry Battle Fury" that springs up in every Jugg thread and reads the OP*

So F.E.A.R, about the mechanics of Omnislash...
F.E.A.R.0 wrote:

However, the most popular way to increase Juggernaut's total damage output during Omnislash is to buy attack speed to allow him to attack normally between slashes (or to buy damage to make these real attacks stronger). Juggernaut has a 1.4 sec BAT and a 0.33 sec frontswing, meaning to have a chance to attack at all during Omnislash (between two slashes, which occur every 0.4 seconds), you need at least 0.33/0.4 - 1 = -17.5% IAS. So even if you have 0 increased attack speed, there is still a chance of getting one attack. The probability of getting a given number of attacks is complicated and depends on both attack speed and luck, and has been presented here in different forms many times (use search function). It is even possible to attack twice between two slashes, which would require (1.4+0.33)/0.4 - 1 = 332.5% IAS. Even then, the probability of it actually happening is quite low, but increases with IAS.

I notice that you include the Front Swing animation time when calculating Attack Time, is this specific to Auto-Attacks between slashes, or a rule of thumb when calculating Attack Time in general?
Quoted:

A hero's attack speed is completely independent of its attack animation. Attack animation strictly refers to the delay between when an attack order is issued and when the attack is launched. For example, if a hero has an attack time of one second, an attack point of 0.3 seconds, and an attack backswing of 0.5 seconds, they will be idle for 0.2 seconds during every attack cycle. Even if the backswing is cancelled after 0.2 seconds, the idle period is extended to 0.5 seconds. However, during that idle period, other commands can be issued such as moving or casting spells.

As far as I'm aware, the time between Auto-Attacks is only dependent on the Attack Point.

At 400IAS (the cap), you end up with an Attack Point of:-

1.4/(1 + 4) == 0.28

So, would the Attack Time cap at the lowest possible Attack Point (0.28) or the Front Swing animation time (0.33)?

P.S. I would go into a lobby and test myself, but testing a difference of 0.05 seconds is...
F.E.A.R.0 wrote:

The probability of getting a given number of attacks is complicated and depends on both attack speed and luck, and has been presented here in different forms many times (use search function).

This site doesn't have a search function...stop with the copy pasterino and give me links! I demand further explanations of this 8{D
F.E.A.R.0 wrote:

He's a hard carry.

F.E.A.R.0 wrote:

Don't argue about the "Hard Carry" I wrote. I just did that when I finishing posting this thread :D

*Non-chalantly blames F.E.A.R. for provoking the usual unrelated "Hard Carry Battle Fury" that springs up in every Jugg thread* 8{3




Seriously people, there are a million threads out there about Battle Fury on Juggernaut and plaing him as a Hard Carry already...can we please go back to having a thread that's purely about his mechanics? T-T

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Smuggels » November 10, 2014 8:20pm | Report
i like to build basher and mask of madness on wisp ...


wat chu gunna dooooooo!!!!!

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by KoDyAbAbA » November 11, 2014 6:05am | Report
I like to make refresher on Bristleback

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Unscathed » November 11, 2014 7:10am | Report
I like to do plagiarism on a thread.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by F.E.A.R.0 » November 11, 2014 9:27am | Report
Xyrus wrote:

I notice that you include the Front Swing animation time when calculating Attack Time, is this specific to Auto-Attacks between slashes, or a rule of thumb when calculating Attack Time in general?

Right. Note that the frontswing (like the backswing) is included in the base attack time. So with 1.4 BAT and 40 IAS, if Juggernaut is constantly attacking a stationary target (like a tower) rather than Omnislashing, he will hit once per second. The first hit will be 0.33/1.4 = 0.236 seconds after the reaction delay elapses, the next will be one second after that, then one second after that, and so on. In 9.236 seconds after the reaction delay, he will have landed ten attacks and be starting the backswing for the tenth.

If your attack is interrupted during the frontswing, it will not complete.
When your frontswing completes, the attack hits.
If your attack is interrupted during the backswing, it doesn't matter.
To start an attack, your attack cooldown (= attack time) must have passed since you started the frontswing of the last attack that you completed.
Omnislash interrupts you every 0.4 seconds.

Putting this together: In order to complete two attack during one 0.4 second interval, you must obviously complete the first attack. The second attack cannot start until your attack time has passed. When it starts, you only need to complete the frontswing to get the attack to hit, the backswing can (and will) be interrupted.

This means you need to fit one complete attack time/cooldown plus one frontswing into the 0.4 second interval.

Xyrus wrote:
This site doesn't have a search function...stop with the copy pasterino and give me links! I demand further explanations of this 8{D

I forgot that this site doesn't have one. I didn't copy paste.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by jamesShajam » November 11, 2014 9:53am | Report
KoDyAbAbA wrote:

I like to make refresher on Bristleback

WAT CHU GUNNA DOOOOOOOO!!!!

IMA GOOOOOOOO YOUUU
Gr8 b8, m8. I rel8, str8 appreci8, and congratul8. I r8 this b8 an 8/8. Plz no h8, I'm str8 ir8. Cr8 more, can't w8. We should convers8, I won't ber8, my number is 8888888, ask for N8. No calls l8 or out of st8. If on a d8, ask K8 to loc8. Even with a full pl8, I always have time to communic8 so don't hesit8.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Xyrus » November 11, 2014 6:58pm | Report
F.E.A.R.0 wrote:

So with 1.4 BAT and 40 IAS, if Juggernaut is constantly attacking a stationary target (like a tower) rather than Omnislashing, he will hit once per second. The first hit will be 0.33/1.4 = 0.236 seconds after the reaction delay elapses, the next will be one second after that, then one second after that, and so on. In 9.236 seconds after the reaction delay, he will have landed ten attacks and be starting the backswing for the tenth.

Does this 1.4 represent (1 + .40 IAS) or 1.4 BAT?
F.E.A.R.0 wrote:

This means you need to fit one complete attack time/cooldown plus one frontswing into the 0.4 second interval.

I may need to make a graph for this <}3

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by F.E.A.R.0 » November 12, 2014 10:10am | Report
Xyrus wrote:

Does this 1.4 represent (1 + .40 IAS) or 1.4 BAT?

1.4 BAT.
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