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A Janna Bot turned Crystal Maiden

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Forum » Matchmaking » A Janna Bot turned Crystal Maiden 36 posts - page 2 of 4
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Iratesniper » April 25, 2012 6:22pm | Report
I catch myself saying champions some times too... Ug. old habits are hard to loose.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Xenasis » April 26, 2012 8:50am | Report
Atlas wrote:

LoL attracts a more casual audience, and DotA is a bit more... hardcore? Nothing against LoL players, just they typically lack skill (like any new player) trying to learn the game.


Casual players compared to what game? In a toss up between LoL and DotA 2, without question the best MOBA games (or at least most popular) out right now, it's an unfair argument.

DotA is in closed beta right now and as such you're EXTREMELY lucky if you get an invite.

Basically, if you want to play one of the best MOBA games from the best two that are out (sorry HoN), you have to pick LoL. DotA isn't accessible for most people due to the fact it is in closed beta.

LoL's mechanics are extremely different to DotA/HoN's mechanics, and it's like coming from Halo to Counterstrike, they're so different you might as well have no experience in Halo when you're starting CS, for example. The reason people might seem better if they've come from HoN or whatever is because they share very similar mechanics.

The games require different skill sets, both games get casual players but since one is in a beta right now (and people don't want to play the original DotA unless they started doing so when it was out due to the fact it's old), it's obvious which will get more. One audience isn't more hardcore than another, one just actually lets people casually lay it and download it, whereas with DotA you need an invite which are all too rare to get.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Atlas » April 26, 2012 9:27am | Report
Xenasis wrote:



Casual players compared to what game? In a toss up between LoL and DotA 2, without question the best MOBA games (or at least most popular) out right now, it's an unfair argument.

DotA is in closed beta right now and as such you're EXTREMELY lucky if you get an invite.

Basically, if you want to play one of the best MOBA games from the best two that are out (sorry HoN), you have to pick LoL. DotA isn't accessible for most people due to the fact it is in closed beta.

LoL's mechanics are extremely different to DotA/HoN's mechanics, and it's like coming from Halo to Counterstrike, they're so different you might as well have no experience in Halo when you're starting CS, for example. The reason people might seem better if they've come from HoN or whatever is because they share very similar mechanics.

The games require different skill sets, both games get casual players but since one is in a beta right now (and people don't want to play the original DotA unless they started doing so when it was out due to the fact it's old), it's obvious which will get more. One audience isn't more hardcore than another, one just actually lets people casually lay it and download it, whereas with DotA you need an invite which are all too rare to get.

They have a LOT of similar mechanics, actually.
And DotA isn't secluded to the beta, w 3 dota has been around forever.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Xenasis » April 26, 2012 9:53am | Report
They are similar as they are the same genre, but as I said, it's like comparing Halo and Counterstrike, in both games you aim and shoot, in both games there's a headshot multiplier, etc.

Yes, I know WC3 DotA has been around forever (and is still played a LOT), but as I said, it's daunting for new people to start up on (especially due to the fact graphics have revolutionised since then, and I know graphics don't make a game, but they are certainly desirable when you're looking for something to play), and if they did not own WC3, nor get into it at that time, they are more likely than not going to avoid it.

If you want to play a MOBA for the first time now, your first thoughts with no previous experience or knowledge of/in any MOBA is not going to be "I'll play the one that's almost 10 years old, despite how good it's supposed to be" when there's loads of newer ones out.

To someone with no previous knowledge of MOBA games, it would be like telling someone to start FPS games with Duke Nukem 3D or Doom.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Atlas » April 26, 2012 10:00am | Report
I'm not sure what were arguing about here, to be honest.

LoL is a more casual game, is easier to learn.

DotA's audience is a bit more hardcore, as the game is more difficult to learn.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Xenasis » April 26, 2012 10:17am | Report
Atlas wrote:

LoL is a more casual game, is easier to learn.


No it isn't.

It's different to DotA, not easier.

Both have a very high skill curve.

If anything, the only reason it's hard to learn DotA is because it's practically impossible for casuals to play it (old game and closed beta), so if a casual does pick it up, either DotA or DotA 2, they are placed against people who are better than them.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Iratesniper » April 26, 2012 1:45pm | Report
I don't think either are too hard to learn, once you've played a moba. The first moba that you play good at should lay a basis for all other moba game types. It just takes a few matches to get used to a new game.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Atlas » April 26, 2012 2:10pm | Report
Xenasis wrote:



No it isn't.

It's different to DotA, not easier.

Both have a very high skill curve.

If anything, the only reason it's hard to learn DotA is because it's practically impossible for casuals to play it (old game and closed beta), so if a casual does pick it up, either DotA or DotA 2, they are placed against people who are better than them.

This has been the basis of too many arguments. DotA is definitely harder to learn by far.

If the reasons as to why it is more difficult than LoL aren't obvious, I really don't have much to say here.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by William » April 26, 2012 2:33pm | Report
Seems my introduction thread has caused quite a stir.

;)
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Xenasis » April 26, 2012 2:54pm | Report
Atlas wrote:

This has been the basis of too many arguments. DotA is definitely harder to learn by far.

If the reasons as to why it is more difficult than LoL aren't obvious, I really don't have much to say here.


The only reason it is deemed harder to learn is because it doesn't allow much of a casual playerbase and you get thrown in at the deep end.

If, for example, you didn't get most of your last hits denied at the start, and have to instantly get a bunch of cs, and you weren't against enemies that were already somewhat experienced when you weren't, you're obviously going to have a harder time learning it when there are no other new players because the systems of both discourage new users (DotA is intimidating due to its age, DotA 2 requires you to play DotA 1 to apply (look at that survey...) and is a closed beta).

There are many obvious reasons as to why some aspects of DotA are harder than LoL. Examples include -
  • Denies
  • Damage largely split between heroes in team fights (it's not just tanks + carries)
  • Intensive micromanagement (Chen/Invoker/Syllabear, etc)
  • Harder snowball
  • Much harder last hitting


But there are many reasons why some aspects of LoL are harder than DotA. Examples include -
  • Far, far more skillshots
  • Harder laning phase. Less regen available, more mana regen available (especially through blue buff). You NEED to be able to dodge stuff or outlane.
  • Junglers have a much, much bigger impact on early game, and are generally harder. Compare needing to care for a Shaco gank at 2 to anybody on DotA.
  • More map awareness and map control required. Wards last for a shorter duration, more easily taken out by opponent.
  • Counter jungling is FAR more prevalent, getting the right response to it is vital


Both are hard in their own rights, but you'd be a fool to judge one as simply 'harder' from mechanics alone. Current playerbase is a different story. When DotA 2 launches, depending on the matchmaking, it will again be for debate.
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