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Kashkin, the Magician

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Forum » Hero & Item Ideas » Kashkin, the Magician 5 posts - page 1 of 1
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by FangzofFuzzy » January 14, 2018 9:52pm | Report
Twirling his magic cane and swirling his magic cape, Kashkin is no doubt, a magician. While magic is not uncommon in this world, he is one of the few who portrays it with a flair and has a penchant for using it for entertainment, drawing in large crowds to enthral. Sorcerers, wizards and most magi dislike him for the fact that he has commercialized and played down such refined craft, yet Kashkin couldn’t care less about the concerns of his peers. Thus, a rumour spread from the halls of magic practitioners to the general public that he was simply a hoax: A conman who did not actually possess power. When questioned about it, Kashkin only asked the people to simply believe in the magic. When asked to prove them wrong, Kashkin only responded the same. Unwilling to share the secrets of his trade, more and more people stopped believing in the magician. Until one day, he staged his greatest performance yet. Tipping his top hat, Kashkin openly declared that for his next act, he would be participating in the Battle of the Ancients. And the crowd went silent.
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Kashkin, the Magician


Role: Ganker, Disabler, Nuker

Strength: 21 + 1.6
Agility: 14 + 1.4
Intelligence: 24 + 2.8

Base Damage: 24 – 36
Base Armor: 2
Attack Range: 150
Movement Speed: 290
BAT: 2.0
Vision Range: 1800/900

Kashkin is a conniving and deceiving performer who excels at diverting the enemy’s attention away while he sets up his tricks. Bedazzle forces enemies to dispose of it, lest they suffer debilitating disables. However, not focusing the Magician gives him time to prepare his deadly Vanishing Act, fading his team from sight. Both these spells facilitate his potential to Astound his targets as he disappears and reappears around the battlefield. Though his magic tricks get far more dramatic once his Body Double is involved. If you aren’t amazed by his performances, you’ll have your life back guaranteed. So, come one, come all to the show.
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Abilities

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Q - Bedazzle



Bright lights never fail to captivate a crowd’s attention.

Conjure a shining orb that slows enemies moving away from it. It detonates after 4 seconds, damaging and removing the vision of nearby enemies over 2 seconds.

Ability: Target Point
Mana Cost: 120
Cooldown: 12, 11, 10, 9
Range: 900
Radius: 600
Damage: Magical
Health: 4
Move Slow: 20, 30, 40, 50%
Damage per Second: 70, 105, 140, 175

Notes


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W – Astound



While his performances are magical to the eyes, the magic truly only happens where they do not reach.

Blink onto a unit after a 1 second cast time. Enemies around the target who did not have vision of Kashkin will be hexed upon arrival.

Ability: Target Unit
Mana Cost: 90
Cooldown: 15, 12, 9, 6
Range: 750
Radius: 300
Hex: 1.6, 1.9, 2.2, 2.5
Set Movement Speed: 200

Notes


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E – Body Double



Many speculate that Kashkin’s extreme acts can only be done because he possesses a stunt double.

Summon a copy of himself. It has access to lesser versions of his abilities.

FangzofFuzzy wrote:

Bedazzle: Slows but does not damage nor remove vision.
Astound: Blinks but will never hex.
Body Double: No access to this spell.
Vanishing Act: Deals full damage but does not grant invisibility.

Ability: No Target
Mana Cost: 120, 110, 100, 90
Cooldown: 60, 50, 40, 30
Clone Damage Dealt: 50%
Duration: 12

Notes


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R – Vanishing Act



With a flourish of his cape and a poof of smoke, the Magician slips away to prepare for his next show.

Every 5th attack deals bonus damage, granting himself and all nearby allies undetectable invisibility. Nearby Bedazzle orbs will be made invisible as well.

Ability: Passive
Radius: 450
Damage: Magical
Bonus Damage: 200, 350, 500
Duration: 3, 4, 5

Notes


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Talents



10: 90 Gold/Min or 30% XP Gain
15: 8 All Stats or 15% Cooldown Reduction
20: +150 Vanishing Act Damage or 150 Spell Radius
25: +1 Body Double Copy or 50% Bedazzle Blind Aura

Notes


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Discussion

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A reimagining of one of my earlier and more complicated concepts, Kashkin the Wandering Magician, mixed with trickster elements from another entertaining-themed hero I made more recently, Joyful the Jester.

More TBC

FangzofFuzzy


Notable (9)
Posts: 72
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by AttackHelicopter » January 15, 2018 2:12am | Report
So, on the hero itself its, good a magician has never really been used before and all so good one on that. Now on the gameplay.


The gameplay revolves around vision of enemies on you, there is not a lot of heroes who have vision play only one I can think of is Phantom Assassin with her blur and maybe Balanar. Although I say I do have a problem especially the ult and Q. Now the Q is good and all but my thing about it is it completely destroys vision not reduce it, for me scale the vision reduction to maybe 60%/70%/80%/90% and have a talent that makes it so anyone who got hit will have no vision.


The ult is also has a big issue, the motif of it is to have a passive Mirana's ult, this can be a pain in the *** to deal with especially the fact that the invisibility has no cooldown, yes it has a 5 second duration, but 5 seconds can break or make a team fight. and yes you need five hits but remember just make him buy Mask of Madness or any attack speed item and he will have it with no downtime whatsoever for me, make it so that the ult has an active component, maybe after 5 hits you will be invisible and have the bonus damage OR you can activate it and have the invisibility be spread among your teammates in an area and have the bonus damage upon re-apperance be equally distributed among teammates and it will have a 30 sec cooldown, during that only the passive component will be active.


My second woes is on the E, I think this is just a toned down version of Tempest Double, it doesn't have any unique things other than it can cast toned down versions of your abilities. My suggestion would be have something to do with those illusions, maybe, for example, you can target the illusion with your W and instead of hexing the illusion you hex enemies (creep and hero) around a500 radius of the illusion.

AttackHelicopter


Notable (1)
Posts: 81
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by FangzofFuzzy » January 16, 2018 3:58am | Report


The gameplay revolves around vision of enemies on you, there is not a lot of heroes who have vision play only one I can think of is Phantom Assassin with her blur and maybe Balanar. Although I say I do have a problem especially the ult and Q. Now the Q is good and all but my thing about it is it completely destroys vision not reduce it, for me scale the vision reduction to maybe 60%/70%/80%/90% and have a talent that makes it so anyone who got hit will have no vision.

The ult is also has a big issue, the motif of it is to have a passive Mirana's ult, this can be a pain in the *** to deal with especially the fact that the invisibility has no cooldown, yes it has a 5 second duration, but 5 seconds can break or make a team fight. and yes you need five hits but remember just make him buy Mask of Madness or any attack speed item and he will have it with no downtime whatsoever for me, make it so that the ult has an active component, maybe after 5 hits you will be invisible and have the bonus damage OR you can activate it and have the invisibility be spread among your teammates in an area and have the bonus damage upon re-apperance be equally distributed among teammates and it will have a 30 sec cooldown, during that only the passive component will be active.

My second woes is on the E, I think this is just a toned down version of Tempest Double, it doesn't have any unique things other than it can cast toned down versions of your abilities. My suggestion would be have something to do with those illusions, maybe, for example, you can target the illusion with your W and instead of hexing the illusion you hex enemies (creep and hero) around a500 radius of the illusion.


The Q vision removal lasts 2 seconds, and you have ample opportunity to destroy it so that it never even happens. I think the strength of the debuff is justified, but whatever, no real point fretting over balance of an idea.

I think you misunderstand his ultimate. It' not like Moonlight Shadow where it keeps getting re-applied after breaking, it only lasts for that short duration and completely goes away if you break it via attacking, casting spells or using items. Yes its undetectable like Shadow Dance but the invisibility itself has no secondary effect like bonus move speed, regen or damage. So with all this, do you still think it's too strong? On your point on building attack speed, notice his pretty bad BAT and Agility growth. As for a Mask of Madness, look at his Strength. He's not built to manfight straight up but I feel if you want to go for a full glass cannon attack speed build, you should be rewarded with more frequent ultimate procs for having less utility.

Is it a toned down Tempest Double? Yeah sure, the same way Searing Chains is a toned down Overgrowth but I digress. The biggest difference between Body Double and Arc Warden's ultimate is that Kashkin's clone looks the same as him to enemies, which is SUPER important to his playstyle and is a very big factor in tricking enemies. This combined with his toned down spells make him really unique, making it really hard to differentiate the clone and the actual hero until it's too late. Sure some heroes like Phantom Lancer have this too, but they can't achieve it while simultaneously casting similarly looking spells, which IMO pushes Kashkin over the edge.

I personally don't want to complicate the spell using your idea, there's already a lot of things you can do with the clone without needing forced synergy. That said, I have been contemplating a similar change to the W that I will add.

FangzofFuzzy


Notable (9)
Posts: 72
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by AttackHelicopter » January 16, 2018 2:58pm | Report
FangzofFuzzy wrote:



The Q vision removal lasts 2 seconds, and you have ample opportunity to destroy it so that it never even happens. I think the strength of the debuff is justified, but whatever, no real point fretting over balance of an idea.

I think you misunderstand his ultimate. It' not like Moonlight Shadow where it keeps getting re-applied after breaking, it only lasts for that short duration and completely goes away if you break it via attacking, casting spells or using items. Yes its undetectable like Shadow Dance but the invisibility itself has no secondary effect like bonus move speed, regen or damage. So with all this, do you still think it's too strong? On your point on building attack speed, notice his pretty bad BAT and Agility growth. As for a Mask of Madness, look at his Strength. He's not built to manfight straight up but I feel if you want to go for a full glass cannon attack speed build, you should be rewarded with more frequent ultimate procs for having less utility.

Is it a toned down Tempest Double? Yeah sure, the same way Searing Chains is a toned down Overgrowth but I digress. The biggest difference between Body Double and Arc Warden's ultimate is that Kashkin's clone looks the same as him to enemies, which is SUPER important to his playstyle and is a very big factor in tricking enemies. This combined with his toned down spells make him really unique, making it really hard to differentiate the clone and the actual hero until it's too late. Sure some heroes like Phantom Lancer have this too, but they can't achieve it while simultaneously casting similarly looking spells, which IMO pushes Kashkin over the edge.

I personally don't want to complicate the spell using your idea, there's already a lot of things you can do with the clone without needing forced synergy. That said, I have been contemplating a similar change to the W that I will add.




My point on the Ult is pretty much is this: Its just basically a passive Mirana's ult with no downtime and low duration, one may argue he is not a manfighter so the "no downtime" argument will happen, but again this is Dota as NoTail said "everything can work" one can build items around this ability making the possibility of the ability having no downtime a reality, for me just give it a cooldown. The argument this will be broken with things that will normally break an invisibility, again if someone builds his items around this ability he will basically have a free ult. Also comparing it to Slark's ult is not good, remember this thing gives invisibility that cannot be detected, unlike Slark that yes we can't detect the guy but he has a marker, the cloud around him to know where he is. My best suggestion here is just rewording the ult, make it so after 5 consecutive cast of any of your ability, that will hit, he gets to have this ult and it will include those from the double.Because as you said his strength is not good and his abilities center around targets not having vision of him then why bother having him hit an enemy 5 times, the ult basically makes the hero lose its rather rare play style.


On to the double, my point here is not to make it feel bland, my thing is its really just like a tempest double, yeah sure Searing Chains is to overgrowth analogy point taken fine, but the thing is if you will model it after PL's illusions then it's gonna be bad its not distinguishable from that, it doesn't offer anything new. To be specific my point is have something new, how the main hero can make use of the double to his advantage not just hey it looks like the main hero, people are gonna get confused thing, because if the illusion can only do the same things as the real hero does but its just a tone down version of those then why bother playing this if there is a hero that can do these and more in the form of Arc Warden? Now I get the "hey get bamboozled" thing going on but remember PL already does that, I also get the I can cast the abilities of the main hero but Arc Warden already does that, the ability is just an amalgamation nothing is new, give it properties that can redefine what illusions are not just redone versions of other hero's.

AttackHelicopter


Notable (1)
Posts: 81
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by FangzofFuzzy » January 16, 2018 5:55pm | Report


My point on the Ult is pretty much is this: Its just basically a passive Mirana's ult with no downtime and low duration, one may argue he is not a manfighter so the "no downtime" argument will happen, but again this is Dota as NoTail said "everything can work" one can build items around this ability making the possibility of the ability having no downtime a reality, for me just give it a cooldown. The argument this will be broken with things that will normally break an invisibility, again if someone builds his items around this ability he will basically have a free ult. Also comparing it to Slark's ult is not good, remember this thing gives invisibility that cannot be detected, unlike Slark that yes we can't detect the guy but he has a marker, the cloud around him to know where he is. My best suggestion here is just rewording the ult, make it so after 5 consecutive cast of any of your ability, that will hit, he gets to have this ult and it will include those from the double.Because as you said his strength is not good and his abilities center around targets not having vision of him then why bother having him hit an enemy 5 times, the ult basically makes the hero lose its rather rare play style.

On to the double, my point here is not to make it feel bland, my thing is its really just like a tempest double, yeah sure Searing Chains is to overgrowth analogy point taken fine, but the thing is if you will model it after PL's illusions then it's gonna be bad its not distinguishable from that, it doesn't offer anything new. To be specific my point is have something new, how the main hero can make use of the double to his advantage not just hey it looks like the main hero, people are gonna get confused thing, because if the illusion can only do the same things as the real hero does but its just a tone down version of those then why bother playing this if there is a hero that can do these and more in the form of Arc Warden? Now I get the "hey get bamboozled" thing going on but remember PL already does that, I also get the I can cast the abilities of the main hero but Arc Warden already does that, the ability is just an amalgamation nothing is new, give it properties that can redefine what illusions are not just redone versions of other hero's.


I don't think you're reading properly. It's not a Mirana ult and I compared it to Slark's ult because they both cannot be revealed with detection. In all fairness, I admit that his ultimate is strong. It's only gated by how difficult it feasibly is to trigger it and trigger it on as many allies as possible. Making it proc via attacks instead of spells means he has to commmit, despite his poor stats. Can you build around that? Sure, the same way you can focus to build around Ball Lightning, go ahead.

And that leads to how useful his E truly is for the hero. While the ability itself is nothing new, it's how you use it that counts. One good ultimate proc can swing a fight, so use your clone to distract or redirect their attention, unlike what PL and Arc Warden offers in raw damage. I feel your suggestion just complicates an already pretty complicated hero when thinking about spell interactions.

FangzofFuzzy


Notable (9)
Posts: 72

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