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If Valve merely mimic Blizzard = Everyone Happy

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Forum » General Discussion » If Valve merely mimic Blizzard = Everyone Happy 25 posts - page 3 of 3
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Nubtrain » March 11, 2013 2:24am | Report
xCO2 wrote:

I think its the OP who has too much free time.


No the OP is someone trying to be a generic game designer with ideas to change dota which is so successful that spawned a new genre of gaming into a MMORPG. Some of his ideas though were already discussed, designed and implemented into the game we call League of Legends.

EDIT:

Kyfoid wrote:

Anyways, long story short, all this game needs is a way to convert your character in to magic form by merely clicking on his picture...

By doing this, it would take all the bonus physical damage that you get from items, and convert is in to a certain % of magic damage that would add strictly to your magical skills.

Why? Because we know that everyone in dota 2 is ultimately a carry, and the 4 sole items that exist for a reasonable spell approach and must be gotten asap are...


Any hero can carry but that idea is different from the idea that all heroes are ultimately carries. Two different ideas, so you must understand that last sentence. Each hero are designed and played differently through their skillsets, you simply cannot compare another hero to another hero except for their role in the team, this is something you've failed to realize DAY 1 from the time you've first posted till now.

For example, Crystal Maiden although she cannot carry like Phantom Lancer, through her supporting skills, if left alone, CM controls the battle with slows and root to win that battle. This is one way CM players win games for the team, carries like PL and supports like CM have different objectives to win the game but in the end the results are the same, get it?

Kyfoid wrote:

Every character is ULTIMATELY a carry after the first 4 items on the list gotten in order.

Wand
Soul ring
Veil of Discord
Refresher Orb


^This is easily destroyed by burst damage but since you don't realize your mistake and think everyone plays like Zeus, here's reasons why.

1. You don't consider the time it takes to farm this

2. You're very low skilled and play in low skill games so for some reason you try to justify things that needed to be change to suit your needs

3. By the time you get those items, meaning you need farms and kills, any semi-carry or hardcarry played by semi-low - mid-skilled will destroy you.

4. That build doesn't work for every hero

Edit 2: How does that build help heroes like Phantom Assassin or Weaver?

Kyfoid wrote:

What are you gonna do? Get two divine rapiers because you have such great farming potential? But wait, you don't because the carries that were getting hero kills are actually farming faster then you...

Why can't hero kills yield good exp instead of gold so that spell farming can actually be significant?

So the first change that they could try out is hero kills yielding good exp and not gold...


Getting kills yield both good gold and exp, what you want is people not being rewarded for ganks. Inturn this will turn ganking not profitable at all and will then literally turn into a gold farming fest for 50 minutes. Teamfights and ganks will have less of a meaning except to slow down the other carry. Teams will have to play defensive and pick heroes who are good at being defensive, inturn making the game much slower. Bounty Hunter for example will then need a complete redesign or buff his entire skillset and then a nerf or change to his ulti.

TLDR: Change will turn dota into a total farmfest, teamfights and ganks yield less reward, lots of hero reworks will then followup

Kyfoid wrote:

If we come to find that this is not the problem we thought...

Then we find inspiration from what blizzard tried to do with diablo 3, but we do it right...


TWO DIFFERENT game genres, gameplay in Diablo3 is fine, what killed it wasn't how the gameplay felt i.e: killing monsters, it was how the MAJORITY OF THE GAME was designed around the Auction House. If I was 5-6 years younger, I probably wouldn't mind the long farmfest but since I can't stand it anymore, there would only be one thing keeping me playing a bit longer and it was the story. Blizzard killed the story.

The evidence you presented is weak, in terms of statiscal gameplay d2 and d3 are the same. How the skills were handle in Diablo 3 is a huge design change from the standard skillpoint, stat levelup system and it's a good change. Other that that there isn't really much difference from diablo2 and 3 other than graphics right? What literally killed it was it's CONTENT that is BASED and DESIGNED around the auction house to make ACTUAL MONEY.

So from what I'm reading so far, you don't understand why Diablo 3 failed in the first place.

Kyfoid wrote:

a percentage conversion of the bonus physical damage gotten from stats/items to magical damage.

Sure, that percentage might have to be really low, but I'm not sure why some mathamatical genius couldn't figure out what that flat percentage would be...

again, all bonus damage on basic attack would be lost, but now at least your items could be working for you and your spells.

And now we can actually have Legit Spell Caster carries.

GG


We've all thought about it, it's a good idea but that will change the game in a total different direction. It won't be mostly spell design anymore, it'd be based on a numerical value. This changes hero design and completely changes the game. Sounds familiar? This is what Riot does with League of Legends. Invoker and Shadow Fiend for example will need changes since Invoker will need to be nerfed and SF will then need a total rework

Stop trying to change the game into a direction for the worse when you clearly do not understand the game at a good level and why it's so good. What's funny is that these ideas you speak of is in another game which honestly you'll probably like more since you challenge almost every design choice of DOTA.

EDIT3: There was a passive thorns mechanic on Nyx and Blademail but they had total redsigns. If it was weak, they were never ranked/purchased if they were too powerful, nerfed and it was defintely because it was too weak compared to other choices.

TLDR: Kyfoid having zero to little idea to how DOTA works and tries to change design choices to match something similar to a generic MMORPG system just so Kyfoid can get what he wants, skill.

Nubtrain
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by DJConnelly » March 11, 2013 3:14am | Report
I'm not going to bother pulling apart your whole post like other obviously more experienced players here, I myself only having played around 35 games. I'll just say that if its apparent to me that these changes and your reasoning seem bat **** crazy and pointless, they're not good. Also, do you think putting "....." after everything lends you an air of wisdom or something?

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Kyfoid » March 14, 2013 8:47am | Report
When omni-knight is in the game, everyone is ultimately a carry...

Because when he's in the game, it changes the direction of any intellegence/spell/nuker.

Even though he has Guardian Angel, the duration and cool down still means that the opponent team can and should go physically damaging carries and just back off for the mere 7 seconds at most when this spell is cast....

Repel, on the other hand, can virtually be spammed on a lead front man tank with merely 2 second intervals...

Point is, Even the way the spells are designed for omni-knight, and his dramatic effect on being in the game suggest that everyone would rather be a carry, and pretty much can and do find a way to make the 5 remaining slots outside of soul ring hold on to a carry item.

Take Omni-knight and 4 hard carries against 5 intellegence or heavy aoe spell casters and that team will in fact have a severe disadvantage.

A clean and clear imbalance.

Even if that team had lich.... which they would need to have a fighting chance.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Wulfstan » March 14, 2013 9:59am | Report
Kyfoid wrote:

When omni-knight is in the game, everyone is ultimately a carry...

Because when he's in the game, it changes the direction of any intellegence/spell/nuker.

Even though he has Guardian Angel, the duration and cool down still means that the opponent team can and should go physically damaging carries and just back off for the mere 7 seconds at most when this spell is cast....

Repel, on the other hand, can virtually be spammed on a lead front man tank with merely 2 second intervals...

Point is, Even the way the spells are designed for omni-knight, and his dramatic effect on being in the game suggest that everyone would rather be a carry, and pretty much can and do find a way to make the 5 remaining slots outside of soul ring hold on to a carry item.

Take Omni-knight and 4 hard carries against 5 intellegence or heavy aoe spell casters and that team will in fact have a severe disadvantage
A clean and clear imbalance.

Even if that team had lich.... which they would need to have a fighting chance.


Why do you keep changing the subject?Admit that your theory failed.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Nubtrain » March 14, 2013 1:43pm | Report
Kyfoid wrote:

When omni-knight is in the game, everyone is ultimately a carry...

Because when he's in the game, it changes the direction of any intellegence/spell/nuker.

Even though he has Guardian Angel, the duration and cool down still means that the opponent team can and should go physically damaging carries and just back off for the mere 7 seconds at most when this spell is cast....

Repel, on the other hand, can virtually be spammed on a lead front man tank with merely 2 second intervals...

Point is, Even the way the spells are designed for omni-knight, and his dramatic effect on being in the game suggest that everyone would rather be a carry, and pretty much can and do find a way to make the 5 remaining slots outside of soul ring hold on to a carry item.

Take Omni-knight and 4 hard carries against 5 intellegence or heavy aoe spell casters and that team will in fact have a severe disadvantage.

A clean and clear imbalance.

Even if that team had lich.... which they would need to have a fighting chance.


Nope, since the team has 4 hard-carries, they won't have farm until 60 minutes. They'll all die since they don't have farm and because omni's ulti doesn't protect from spell damage. Repel only protects one and removes your ultimate if you cast it on them, try again :)

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