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How can i rise MMR as a supp?

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Forum » General Discussion » How can i rise MMR as a supp? 16 posts - page 1 of 2
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by undeadsasuke34 » January 7, 2016 4:42am | Report
Im 3k, and i want to raise my MMR up to 4k, as a support.Let's say that i'm the best support in the world.At 3k, the cores i have, are not that good.Let's say that i warded the key ganking spots in out jungle, so that AM can farms safe, 3 enemy heroes come, we see them, i ping AM to go, but he wants to kill the last creep in the camp, and that greed leads him to death (Fiends Grip plus sky's ulti, he dies).Shadow Fiend rages cuz DK "stoled" his courier, and feeds all the game.
I know that i should focus on myself, but even if im the best support in the world, the 3k cores are not.They act like ******* and give up so easily.
My question is:Can i raise MMR as a supp, starting from 3k?
Can i have your advice on that?
I'm kinda a relatively good supp, but i'd like to know what can i do more to win games at 3k.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Xyrus » January 7, 2016 8:33am | Report
The problem is, if you can't rely on your Cores to do basic things like hitting Towers, Rax and the Ancient, watching the map, buying useful Items, etc. then no matter how good you are as a Support, you are always going to lose.

The aim of the game is to Kill the enemy's Ancient, and frankly, Supporting will not directly achieve this. You may want to consider switching to a Core role and playing Heroes that can fight and Split-Push effectively and save Supporting for 5-Stacks and higher MMR.

It's not impossible to raise MMR as a Support, and sometimes Supporting will win the game by providing space for a Copre that knows what they're doing, but you're going to lose games you could have otherwise won if you'd had one guy on your team that could take Towers.

Determining whether your teammates aer smart enough to get their jobs done at the start of a match is only really possible if you've played with the players before and know you can trust them, so personally, I'd recommend playing a Core until you reach at least 4k.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by nukers united » January 7, 2016 8:56am | Report
Yea I used to mainly support but I always have unreliable cores so I just play core now and help out our supports while being the better core of our team

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Sando » January 7, 2016 10:50am | Report
Speaking as a 4k player who's played 80%+ of his games as support, I can confirm that it's extremely possible.

The story you gave there pretty much exactly mirrors one from a game I played yesterday (first random Nyx Assassin..teams pick mean you're solo support). We had a bad Ember Spirit core. At one point 30+ mins in, half the team spotted (thanks to my 2 carefully placed wards) a gank squad including Legion Commander coming in for him.

I spammed the usual "get back" "legion is missing", ping ping ping, draw line. This guy is so dense he not only finished the current wave (dangerous), he actually pushed on to the next wave (suicide). Legion says thanks for the +damage. He apologises afterwards, so obviously could understand the messages. This is presumably a ~4k player.

Moral of the story...dumb players are dumb. At any MMR, you will get them. Maybe a few less % as you go up. There are plenty of non-dumb cores out there too, they will listen. Don't get hung up on the windowlickers.

The other point of the story - playing support is a perfectly valid choice for MMR gain. A good support player can have a lot of game impact...not just in the obvious KDA, last hits, damage kind of way - but numerous other saves, sacrifices, utility, NOT farming half the map kind of way. Good luck getting farm onto your carry when most of the rest of your team is fighting you for it.

Having a support who:

- Buys utility
- Buys detection
- Doesn't feed
- Stacks and assists
- Spots and organises

Is easily like 50%+ more likely to win the game than a 4th or 5th carry pick. You should also learn when to be greedy and flashfarm like a pro when necessary, and how to survive on bare bones when you need to.

And the best thing? You're not reliant on incompetent n00b supports to make sure all this stuff gets done.

Dotabuff of that match: Link

As you can see, I had parity or close on gold income to most of the rest of the team off the back of 23 last hits and 3 kills. And 2nd highest hero damage on the team with a #5, and no, not a Dagon in sight :)
A full list of my guides is here

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by PrimarchXIII » January 9, 2016 2:13am | Report
Thank you for the confidence booster Sando! I can't recall who said it ( maybe Purge <3 ) but they mentioned that the best way to raise MMR is to pick what you are comfortable playing with. If you believe that your best position is as a support Undeadsasuke34-kun, then you should play support. As a fellow support player, I know how you feel Bro...

GLHF. #supportroadto4k

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by HamboneZ » February 6, 2016 4:03pm | Report
I main support, but I can't see how to get out of 3K madness by only supporting.. Even with the best stacking, vision, of utilities you get, you have 4 remaining ally to do the rest of the job.

I am soon leaving all faith into this role on Solo Queues.. Too much deception trying hard and getting flamers or people who just CAN'T carry or make impact.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by The Frosto » February 7, 2016 5:25am | Report
If you want to get MMR as a support player you need to be able to sacrifice yourself. Look even a bad core can rightclick so if you allow him to get more exp than the other cores in the enemy team (which are as bad as yours) you have an advantage. Crystal Maiden and Lich are sublime for this. Lich has a spell sacrifice and Crystal Maiden can jungle a bit while leaving the core for solo exp.

Doing good pulls is also important, never do those fail pulls where half the creepwave survives.
But before you pull you have to establish the lane. Don't just pull, first trade really hard with the enemy oflaner(s) until you are really low than do a pull. i like to buy alot of tangoes and clarities as a support just to trade with the enemy until i have no mana and hp than I go pull and regen slowly. Than I will gank or trade again untill I'm really low.

Also you need to demotivate the enemy team. Every time you get a kill with your team, or someone in the enemy team wasn't present in the teamfight, say some trashtalk in the allchat about their team. Disturbing the moral from your enemy is like the best way to win in dota.

Ganking is also important. Like it is SO easy to gank the midlane in a pub and even if you have a bad mid you can normaly kill the enemy mid. Just ping super hard throw a nuke and don't die to the tower. Probably if the enemy mid runs away with low hp you can intercept him between his 2 towers and nuke him again. You can gank with every hero even with Lich or Warlock, who doesn't vene have a stun.
Any man can make mistakes, but only an idiot persists in it.
-Cicero

And still every dota player flames someone else instead of himself.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by michimatsch » February 7, 2016 10:33am | Report
I have to disagree with you Frosto. Don't always be the sacrificial lamb, only when you have to.
The Boots of Speed are a good example. Yes, your team needs wards but when you don't get these boots you will be almost completely useless for your team and/or get less gold which results in a worse support.
For me rising mmr as a support means knowing where to find farm, how to gank, how to zone the enemy offlaner and knowing the best ward spots. Bonus points if you know how and when to pull.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by The Frosto » February 8, 2016 1:50am | Report
With being able to sacrife is more, don't stay in the lane like most passive support to get exp.
It is really important to get farm but when you know how to play support people should be able to get. I more mean that a support shouldn't be afraid to leave the lane from the carry and to not steal last hits in any circumstances (even as a Keeper of the Light with Illuminate).

I have seen alot of supports who sacrifice to much like, a support lina who was level 2 in 6-7 minutes because she had been stacking the jungle. That wasn't good because nobody in our team was even able to farm those giant stacks and a few stacks went to the enemy. Getting items is crucial to outplay your opponants but people shouldn't prioritize their luxury items above the safety of your allies.

ps sacrificing isn't really getting underfarmed, sacrificing is more getting things done on the map which sometimes leads in you being underfarmed but your mid hero dominating the game because you helped him killing the opposing mid and safing him from certain death, even if safing from death leads into you dieing for your core.

People often think to much that they need a 13 minute Blink Dagger on a Crystal Maiden and when the team gets a bit behind they are like, o I need to carry and they get a dagon or some other **** instead of getting a utility item that leads into letting your ally getting a kill on their godlike carry and to maje comeback.

Peope often say "my cores are bad" and that is often true but so are the enemy. It's just the task of the support to guide your carry to being more farmed than the other carry.
Any man can make mistakes, but only an idiot persists in it.
-Cicero

And still every dota player flames someone else instead of himself.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by ChiChi » February 8, 2016 3:36am | Report
The Frosto wrote:

Also you need to demotivate the enemy team. Every time you get a kill with your team, or someone in the enemy team wasn't present in the teamfight, say some trashtalk in the allchat about their team. Disturbing the moral from your enemy is like the best way to win in dota.


Are you seriously advicing to try to win Dota by trashtalking to the enemy team? xD

That's coward, to say the very least.

I agree with all the rest that was said. One of the things that's most needed in solo pub games is someone with the ability to "command" the team and make the calls, and there's no one best suited for that than the support, because of the specificities of your role - you have access to the "bigger picture" of the game. If you make the right decisions, you will probably determine the win, as a wrong decision can make you lose. But you don't achieve this, Ever, by flamming or mindlessly ordering people around. You need to be rational, calm and gentle, and earn the trust of your teammates. I find that's also more easily achieved if you play support than if you play another role, because of the selfless aspect of it. But I definitelly think you can have a great impact as support, if you have this active role of "ok now let's take this objectif", at least half of the time people will hear you and do it, even if they are normally bad cores that don't know what they are supposed to be doing otherwise.

Credits to Janitsu!

Ammateurs coaching channel iei! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOBsWN_45WjrRXLAWUqeyaA

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