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Playing diverse heros

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Forum » General Discussion » Playing diverse heros 10 posts - page 1 of 1
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by HenzaChan » October 13, 2013 11:06pm | Report
So far, my time at DoTA is going well after have only just started. I realise one of the main ideas of DoTA is to be able to adapt in any situation. Even so, the number of heros to choose from is quite large. Trying to "picK" the perfect hero in each game does seem daunting.

So, what I was wondering is, is there a "general" type of item and skill build that applies for each type of hero (as in strength carry, strength support, intelligence carry, agility support etc)? Of course skill build is quite self explanatory as you'd read the skill description before you decide which point to put in.

What about items? Do you follow all the recommended items in game, or is there a different general item build suited for each role of heros?

HenzaChan



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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Sando » October 14, 2013 1:12am | Report
Not exactly, no. Different heroes require different builds, and it also depends a lot on the situation. As a carry, do you need to farm heavily early on? ( Maelstrom/ Hand of Midas/ Battle Fury). Do you need to fight early? Armlet of Mordiggian. Is the enemy team full of nukers/stunners? ( Black King Bar). You need to identify which of these would be your first big item for example.

The best thing to do is get a good understanding of as many items and heroes as possible - once you 'get' why certain heroes are usually built in certain ways, and what those items do, it's much easier to change it up ingame when you need to.

Usually you start by trying to "fix" the problems with your hero, for example if you were playing as Earthshaker or Lina you want those Arcane Boots ASAP to solve your mana problems. Many intelligence heroes need to bulk up their HP a little to keep them alive, especially against teams with lots of burst damage, so Bracer is a common choice, maybe even 2.

Once you've "fixed" their problems, you want to pile on as many beneficial effects as possible and maximise the potential of any passives you have. For example if you have a passive Bash type skill, maximise your attack speed to ensure procs.
A full list of my guides is here

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by HenzaChan » October 14, 2013 2:30am | Report
Ah I see, so it would make sense that each item plays a role in different types of situation. While I'm still on this thread, I also would like to know, how exactly are you supposed to ward as a support. I've read a couple of guides and responses from previous threads but still don't quite understand. I've even had my friend help me with the idea of warding (only to find out he's actually bad at DoTA even playing for 4 years), he just told me to spam wards anywhere around the river (didn't sound right to me anyway).

I've only played support about 3 or 4 times in total, out of the 4 supported games I've only tried warding once (near the river like my friend had suggested), I only used 1 and completely forgot about it as time went on.

Seeing as majority of people would prefer not to play as a support, I figured that I could fill in that role more professionally (since my friends form a perfect group of 5) and I could be beneficial to the team.

HenzaChan



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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Timminatorr » October 14, 2013 2:39am | Report
Try to place a ward somewhere where it sees at many path's as possible. Rune wards are also great, since even 1 ward tells the mid player where the rune is. So he doesnt lose XP guessing for the rune.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by HenzaChan » October 14, 2013 2:50am | Report
Timminatorr wrote:

Try to place a ward somewhere where it sees at many path's as possible. Rune wards are also great, since even 1 ward tells the mid player where the rune is. So he doesnt lose XP guessing for the rune.


If you're going to ward to show where a rune is, are you supposed to search for the rune even if you're at the wrong side (say you were at bot rune spawn, but it spawned at the top).

Or do you just leave it up to the person to find it themselves if you can't locate the rune.

HenzaChan



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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Irasian » October 14, 2013 4:26am | Report
Personally I would just ping the rune spot whither it is top or bot every 2 minutes and let someone decide if they wanted to go for it. It would take too long to walk from the bot rune to the top rune to check what it was and every second you waste walking is a second you could be farming or setting up a gank, pulling, stacking etc.

Warding spots tend to be situational for the most part in my opinion. It really depends on your team composition, favourite ward spots and a couple of other factors. Normally people ward the river at the start for rune control and some vision against ganks coming from the river and also the offlane pull camp so that they can't use it to pull and generally be a nuisance.
If you are against someone you think might be jungling you might want to ward a large camp if up against Chen, Enigma, Echantress to slow down their farm.
If up against an Ursa or Lifestealer you might want to ward the small camp to slow down their initial farm.

Warding outside the Roshan pit tends to be a good idea mid-late game so you know when the enemy is going for a Roshan attempt and you might be able to contest it, especially important when up against an Ursa or Lycan

If you have a Io you might want to aggressively ward the jungle and their lanes giving more vision into the enemy's territory and making ganking with Io easier as you can see when someone is travelling alone, also it is good to aggressively ward late game too to see enemy movements.

Warding defensively is a great defense against ganks and having the knowledge of if the enemy is farming your jungle can be helpful too. I had a game where the enemy Nature's Prophet pretty much spent the entire game jungling our jungle, thankfully we had vision and could force him out of our jungle.

These links below pretty much sum up everything you need to know about supporting as far as I am concerned.

Thanks to Sando for writing the amazing one at the top.

http://www.dotafire.com/dota-2/guide/a-full-support-guide-beginner-to-intermediate-2094
www.team-dignitas.net/articles/blogs/dota/1092/dota-2-ultimate-guide-to-warding/

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by DzikaPanda » October 14, 2013 5:31am | Report
Well you may have general itembuild that "always" apply to one type of heroes (str carry, agi carry, support etc.), but you always need to change some items depending on both teams composition. For example for str carries I always get Drum of Endurance, Armlet of Mordiggian, for agility Battle Fury, Yasha, for supports Boots of Speed and wards, for nuker type of hero (mid etc) Power Treads or Arcane Boots, Null Talisman, Orchid Malevolence/ Scythe of Vyse, Aghanim's Scepter. For trolling Shadow Blade and Dagon is ultimate combo, which can be extended with Ethereal Blade.
"When game is going full ******, you can only go with it. If you start going against it, if you start going half ******, you´re ****ing done for. When Aloha decides to go middle rubick you let him, and you start buying orb of venom on invoker. That's how dota works" -n0tail

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Timminatorr » October 14, 2013 7:50am | Report
HenzaChan wrote:



If you're going to ward to show where a rune is, are you supposed to search for the rune even if you're at the wrong side (say you were at bot rune spawn, but it spawned at the top).

Or do you just leave it up to the person to find it themselves if you can't locate the rune.

Since every 2 minutes a rune spawns. I push the creeps right before it spawns so i dont lose XP. Then i look at one of the wards an get the rune. Unless someone was waiting for it. You dont need to see the rune to know where it is.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Xyrus » October 14, 2013 8:54am | Report
HenzaChan wrote:

...how exactly are you supposed to ward as a support.

I'm assuming that you always Support the Safe Lane, but my advice would be to do it like this...

*INHALE*



At the very start of the game, look at the enemy's team. Do they have a Jungler? if so, you might want to try sneaking into their Jungle and warding their Small Camp, so not only will no Creeps spawn there, but you gain Vision of them for easy Ganks. The reason you ward the Samll Camp, is because that is the only one most Junglers can take on at lvl1 without nearly dying, forcing them to either abandon the Jungle or take on Tougher Creeps. I find that in Pubs, they usually head to a larger Creep Camp and end up nearly dead (easy Ganks for your Team 8D ).

If there is one ward you absolutely need Early Game, it is the Rune Spawn nearest to your Safe Lane Carry (Bot if you're Radiant, Top if you're Dire).
First of all, this gives you vision of a Rune Spawn, so your Mid should always know where the Rune has spawned.
Secondly, it gives you vision of any enemies trying to get the Runes, or who are sneaking into your Jungle for a Gank as you definitely do not want to be caught off-guard by a Queen of Pain with a Double Damage Rune.
Finally, if your Team has a Queen of Pain or any other good Ganker, and a Rune spawns near your Carry, this can help them decide to Gank the Safe Lane making it easier for your Carry to Farm, making it easier to win the game.
Unfortunately, all this requires your Team to have good decision-making skills and the ability to look at the MiniMap, but it's a good idea nonetheless.

If you're still worried about people trying to Gank your Carry, you can try placing a Ward on the end of the River, so you have vision of their Tower and anyone using a Town Portal Scroll to come to your Lane. Placing a Ward here and on the River can make it difficult for the other Team to catch you off-guard.

Later on, when your Team is getting ready to Push, you might want to try Sneaking in a Ward that gives Vision of an area behind the Enemy Tower, so you can see anyone who is coming to Defend it. Just be careful you don't get caught out while placing this Ward.

Also, there are certain Heroes who can solo Roshan quite easily after a while, like Ursa, Lycanthrope, etc. You're going to want to keep Roshan Warded after about 8 minutes if one of these guys is on either Team, to make sure that you can see anyone trying to Rosh/stop you from Roshing.

If you're losing thet game (have lost most of your Towers) then it's time to Ward defensively. Don't go too far from your Towers, just place Wards a little way ahead so you have plenty of time to see the other Team Pushing and prepare to stop them. Give up on Warding the River or Enemy Towers unless you're Travelling in a Group.

*gasp**gasp*

There's a lot more to Warding than that, but try taking these tips for now. They're all you need to worry about at lower levels of Matchmaking and you'll start figuring out the rest as you go along. 8)

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Manofchalk » October 15, 2013 2:48am | Report
Where to ward does depend on what stage the game is, whether your winning or not, and is a bit shaken up by variables like the presence of junglers or heroes that are constantly ganking.

Generally at the start of the game you want a ward up that can see one of the rune spots, while also covering some other area of importance.
Best example I can think of is the Radiant Jungle at about the point where the land changes from Radiant to Dire, having a ward up there covers that open area that is normally hidden by trees from the lane where ganking heroes typically wait for an opportunity, and also gives vision of the bottom rune. The equivalent top ward would be on the Dire side of the river on that cliff near the Medium jungle camp, gives sight of the rune and entrance into the jungle, while also watching the camp which is useful in case of a jungler on the Dire side (if you are Radiant).

Main point being, the wards you stick down early game (unless there is a specific reason to do otherwise) you want to achieve multiple aims.

Main reason to deviate from this early game is to shut down junglers or pulls. Wards will prevent jungle creeps from spawning when they are within their area, so sticking one down will deny the other team the benefit of having them. Very useful if you are on a hard lane, as you can shut down their pull camp meaning they don't have any more control over creep equilibrium (where the creeps meet and fight) than you do.
This is situational, but some Mid heroes such as Pudge benefit and are hindered greatly from having wards. For a Pudge, being able to see the other mid hero means they could pull off an unexpected hook, if your up against a Pudge, seeing that he is trying to line one up is going to save your ***. Typical mid warding spots are near the Radiant Ancient camp on the high ground and midway between top rune and lane on the Dire side of the river.

Later on in the game, where to ward becomes a bit more situational. If your winning, wards in their jungle and in lane (because they could push the creeps back) is offensive warding. You set these up mainly for the purposes of ganking, or knowing where they are moving so you can push another lane.
Defensive warding is when you are pretty much pushed back past T2 towers. They are pretty similar to offensive warding spots, just on your own side.
"Windranger" is not how you spell Windrunner.

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