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Carry Kills vs Support Kills

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Forum » New Player Help » Carry Kills vs Support Kills 12 posts - page 1 of 2
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by hulsr349 » March 24, 2015 10:40pm | Report
My friends and I have gotten to about 170 games played, and we have 2 people who will usually play the carry for the team. There are many occasions early to mid game where me or another playing a non-carry role will get a kill when the carry was present, and our carries get very frustrated with us and say that it is very bad that the non-carry heroes are getting the kills. I try to let the carry get the kill when possible when I am playing support, but sometimes in attempting to do this the kill gets away. The 2 who play carry on our team will even go to the extent of saying that a support dying to allow the carry to get the kill is worth it, or a kill escaping is okay as long as the carry gets 1 kill when 2 kills may have been possible from a support.

This all seems very incorrect to me. Could someone with more experience enlighten me on this situation? Should anybody who can get the kill just secure it? Or is kill stealing an actual problem? Thanks!

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Sando » March 24, 2015 10:45pm | Report
They're talking rubbish - as a very general rule, supports should let other heroes get kills when safe and possible. Missing kills completely or losing heroes in order to secure them (unless it's a good and necessary trade) is dumb!
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by hulsr349 » March 24, 2015 10:58pm | Report
Thanks for the response, so if we have, say, a 3 person gank on a hero and it is a pretty easy kill, but a support ends up getting the kill, is that a situation where the support messed up? Or is it just not that big of a deal?

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Sanvitch » March 24, 2015 11:10pm | Report
hulsr349 wrote:

Thanks for the response, so if we have, say, a 3 person gank on a hero and it is a pretty easy kill, but a support ends up getting the kill, is that a situation where the support messed up? Or is it just not that big of a deal?


It's not as big a deal as some players like to make it;

In the end you are still getting very much the same out of the kill regardless of who gets it. An influx of gold for your team, a decrease in gold for the opponents team, slower item progression for the ganked hero, and potentially an objective or two.

It's nice when a core can get the last hit on a kill, but it's not the end of the world if doesn't.

Besides, there are situations where you will want your supports to be getting the last hits on kills anyway.

Since you just can't have enough Chaos Breaker.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Hamstertamer » March 24, 2015 11:14pm | Report
hulsr349 wrote:

I try to let the carry get the kill when possible when I am playing support


Yes, that's generally a good thing to help your carry get the kill if you can, since a lot of carries really benefit from having a farm advantage and hitting the timing windows on their items.
For example your Anti-Mage will want his Battle Fury as soon as he can, or your Spectre will want to rush her Radiance...those are very expensive items and the heroes are very, very vulnerable before they can complete them. So you're helping them a lot if you can secure kills for them.

hulsr349 wrote:

but sometimes in attempting to do this the kill gets away.


Never, ever let a single kill get away because you want to help your carry take the kill. Only stop attacking/nuking the enemy hero if you are 100% SURE that he will die. Only at that point can you let your carry get the last hit.
If you are unsure that he will die just keep hitting him.

hulsr349 wrote:

The 2 who play carry on our team will even go to the extent of saying that a support dying to allow the carry to get the kill is worth it


Trading your life for a kill for your carry *is* worth it, however getting a kill yourself and your carry getting assist gold without anyone dying on your team is still a billion times better if you have a choice.

hulsr349 wrote:

or a kill escaping is okay as long as the carry gets 1 kill when 2 kills may have been possible from a support.


This is complete and utter ********. Getting 2 kills is always better than getting 1 kill regardless of who gets them.

hulsr349 wrote:

Should anybody who can get the kill just secure it? Or is kill stealing an actual problem? Thanks!


Kill stealing is fine if you're playing carry and you absolutely need to rush a specific item like battlefury or radiance ASAP. Kill stealing in other circumstances is generally frowned upon as bad-mannered.

Generally, don't make such a big deal of these "who gets the kill" things, since heroes who don't get the last hit still get assist gold which is about half the kill gold if there are 2 heroes involved.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by William » March 24, 2015 11:20pm | Report
This is genuinely complete ****. They sound like fools.

If you spend time worrying about which player will get the kill, you're likely to miss some and many are bound to escape.

Just get the kill, regardless of what you are playing.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by hulsr349 » March 24, 2015 11:31pm | Report
William wrote:
If you spend time worrying about which player will get the kill, you're likely to miss some and many are bound to escape.

I find this to be the biggest problem I have with attempting to let a carry get the kill.


Thank you everybody for your replies.

hulsr349



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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by armc3j » March 24, 2015 11:57pm | Report
always try your hardest to get a kill. No one gets gold if the kill gets away. That being said, sometimes different people might need that kill gold, and not necessarily the carry. I play carry or offlane for my party, and I am happy to let other people take the kills when they need them. That Earthshaker taking the kill? Don't be mad, that's a brand new Blink Dagger for him, which is WAY better for the team than me being 200 gold closer to likens as Morphling. It all depends on who's getting what, and who's there at the time.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Timminatorr » March 25, 2015 12:39am | Report
armc3j wrote:

always try your hardest to get a kill. No one gets gold if the kill gets away. That being said, sometimes different people might need that kill gold, and not necessarily the carry. I play carry or offlane for my party, and I am happy to let other people take the kills when they need them. That Earthshaker taking the kill? Don't be mad, that's a brand new Blink Dagger for him, which is WAY better for the team than me being 200 gold closer to likens as Morphling. It all depends on who's getting what, and who's there at the time.

Who gets linkens on morphling anymore 8D


But seriously, supports can do a lot with money, early blink daggers or euls scepters can help the team a great deal. carries will get more kills eventually anyway just by how they work. Not getting kills only starts becoming a problem for a carry when a keeps dieing in fight while only getting assists.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Sando » March 25, 2015 1:24pm | Report
hulsr349 wrote:

Thanks for the response, so if we have, say, a 3 person gank on a hero and it is a pretty easy kill, but a support ends up getting the kill, is that a situation where the support messed up? Or is it just not that big of a deal?


Supports in general should try not to get the kill in situations like this, BUT it's much better for them to get it than nobody.

Here's the things to watch out for:

1) Is the enemy hero on extremely low health? If so, you might want to stop auto-attacking, and withhold nukes...IF your ally is in a position to finish them quickly and safely.

2) Has the enemy got an escape? For example a Terrorblade with Sunder has just come out of stun-lock next to your carry. Nuke his face off rather than risk him turning it around. Same with an Anti-Mage who might be about to blink into the trees and safety.

3) Safety. Ok you've got Lina cornered and she's almost certaintly can't get away. However...if she chains all her nukes can she kill one of you? Do you think she has the mana to do so? If you're not sure, unload.

So basically - your team getting kills = GOOD. Enemy team getting kills = BAD. That overrides any other concerns about who gets what within that. Only worry about distributing kills if you're in a position to do so.

The main thing to look out for with supports is not withholding your nukes or using them inappropriately. For example Finger of Death on a hero who's Hex'd and on 50hp with your carry next to them. Generally use your nukes early to bring their health down rather than finishing people with them.

Even the best supports kill steal accidently once in a while (oops didn't realise my stun would do quite enough to kill them, or my auto-attack is so weak I didn't realise it would get the last hit amongst 10 other things) - generally you acknowledge this with a "sorry" but decent team mates shouldn't mind.
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