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Bounty Hunter questions (pros only)

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Forum » Theory Crafting » Bounty Hunter questions (pros only) 10 posts - page 1 of 1
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by strreamix » October 18, 2012 2:30am | Report
Hi, I am new to dotafire. It is nice to meet you all.

I come here with a few questions about Gondar, the Bounty Hunter.

1. Is it better to Shadow Walk -> Jinada attack (bonus damage from invisibility) or is it better to break invisibility with Track -> Jinada (-5 armor from track). So my question is which is going to be stronger, the bonus damage from invis or the bonus damage that will come from -5 armor (track).


2. I often see people go Desolator and a "core item" of Bounty Hunter is the Desolator. How much damage is -6 armor actually adding when I attack? Let's use 500 damage for theorycraft's sake and let's use Radiance as the alternate item.

So let's say..

Radiance affecting 500 damage = 500 damage because of no armor reduction
Desolator affecting 500 damage = ? damage

So, how much damage does -armor do?

Thanks,
Nick

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by LiLPr0 » October 18, 2012 2:34am | Report
E > Jinada > Track > E again > Shuriken

rinse and repeat

deso gives -6 armour and 60 damage for a cheaper price so the obvious is clear I think
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Hades4u » October 18, 2012 3:59am | Report
Well, it's not worth wasting the bonus damage from Shadow Walk, you can just Track before going invisible, or after landing the hit.

Also, Desolator is always good, the -6 armor means a lot, test it yourself.

Anyway, if you want to learn about armor in-depth, I'd recommend you this video.



It explains you how armor works, hope it helps.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Captain Planet » October 18, 2012 10:37am | Report
Also, you can look at the armor icon in the HuD on the bottom it will tell you what the damage reduction percentage is. Lowering armor lowers the damage reduction buff, In dota 1 it was also possible to give someone negative Armor that would reverse the reduction to bonus percentage dmg. Will need a confirm if it is like that in dota 2 as I have not tested.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by daPhongster » October 18, 2012 10:22pm | Report
Desolator question:

1 armor = -6% of their 'EHP'
6 armor = -36% of their 'EHP'
6 armor + 5 from track = -66% of their 'EHP'

Track vs Jinada:

Max Track gives 5 armor reduction = -30% 'EHP'
Shadow Walk + Jinada = 120 * 2.5 = 300 'EHP'
-30% 'EHP' = 300 'EHP' when their HP is 1000.

Shadow Walk + Jinada + Track (maxed) is better when their HP is 999 or less.
Shadow Walk + Track + Jinada (maxed) is better when HP us 1001 or more.
At exactly 1000 HP, they are equal.

This is assuming Track, Jinada, and Walk are all maxed.

General Tips: as a general rule, tracking before Jinada is usually more effective late game than early. tracking first is also better against tanks.

However, as Hades Said, it is best to Track before Shadow Walk.

Edit: EHP stands for effective hitpoints. It means how much damage it would take to kill a hero after factoring resistances.

For example, if you have 40% Magic Resitance and 100 HP, it takes:
Spell damage(s) - 40%s = 100 HP , s - .4s = 100 .6s =100 , s = 166
166 Spell damage to kill you.

Icefrog has used some special, complicated mathematics to make each point of armor add EHP equal to 6% of your hp. A sample equation would be 200 HP with 5 armor.
200HP + 5 armor * 6%(200HP) = 200 + .3(200) = 200 + 60 = 260 Phys damage.

Spell and Physical EHP are separate.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Glayde » October 18, 2012 10:26pm | Report
You should:

Track > Shadow Walk (wait for CD the be ready, or about to be) > Jinada > Shadow Walk > Jinada > Shutiken.

This is a basic combo, and can be mixed up a bit (with auto attacks in between if needed).

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Pu12e » November 12, 2012 11:08am | Report
This hero should never be picked and I mean ever. If the other team has some sense they can tear this dude appart.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Hades4u » November 12, 2012 11:16am | Report
Pu12e wrote:

This hero should never be picked and I mean ever. If the other team has some sense they can tear this dude appart.

That has nothing to do with the OP and you just bumped an old thread for no reason at all.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Salawayun » November 13, 2012 1:22am | Report
daPhongster wrote:

Desolator question:

1 armor = -6% of their 'EHP'
6 armor = -36% of their 'EHP'
6 armor + 5 from track = -66% of their 'EHP'

Track vs Jinada:

Max Track gives 5 armor reduction = -30% 'EHP'
Shadow Walk + Jinada = 120 * 2.5 = 300 'EHP'
-30% 'EHP' = 300 'EHP' when their HP is 1000.

Shadow Walk + Jinada + Track (maxed) is better when their HP is 999 or less.
Shadow Walk + Track + Jinada (maxed) is better when HP us 1001 or more.
At exactly 1000 HP, they are equal.

This is assuming Track, Jinada, and Walk are all maxed.

General Tips: as a general rule, tracking before Jinada is usually more effective late game than early. tracking first is also better against tanks.

However, as Hades Said, it is best to Track before Shadow Walk.

Edit: EHP stands for effective hitpoints. It means how much damage it would take to kill a hero after factoring resistances.

For example, if you have 40% Magic Resitance and 100 HP, it takes:
Spell damage(s) - 40%s = 100 HP , s - .4s = 100 .6s =100 , s = 166
166 Spell damage to kill you.

Icefrog has used some special, complicated mathematics to make each point of armor add EHP equal to 6% of your hp. A sample equation would be 200 HP with 5 armor.
200HP + 5 armor * 6%(200HP) = 200 + .3(200) = 200 + 60 = 260 Phys damage.

Spell and Physical EHP are separate.



You got it wrong, Negative Armor doesn't work that way,

Armor or damage reductions follow this formula:
Damage Reduction = ( 0.06 * armor ) / (1 + 0.06 * armor)
Armor Reductions or damage increase due to negative armor follow thise:
Damage Increase = 1 - 0.94 ^ (-armor)
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Contractual » December 5, 2012 2:34pm | Report
After reading through this I could not help but laugh. I saw the comment stating not to ever pick this character because an enemy team can rip him apart. In response to that I say this, "Bounty Hunter ,or, Gondar if you prefer, has the ability Track. This gives an insane amount of excess gold during team fights. If the player is smart and gets up a track on all kill targets before they die then he's adding at least 750 gold to the team; PER PERSON. Think about that before you ever say not to pick Gondar.

Just a side note as to show that I'm not just commenting against somebody else. Armor ratios change minimally as the different amounts of armor go. 6 armor -6 armor is a different amount of additional damage than 5 armor -6 armor is. When it goes negative the ratios get weird.

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