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PLS:Help me some guys still think Scythe of Vyse is not legit on any hero

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Forum » General Discussion » PLS:Help me some guys still think Scythe of Vyse is not legit on any hero 39 posts - page 2 of 4
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Smuggels » September 4, 2015 3:13am | Report
ive got it on DK before lol i had a SS that was always JUST getting away and it was like 50 minutes into the game and i was like **** it so i bought it. blinked ontop of him and stunned then just as the stun was wearing off i sheeped and i killed him in the last like 0.2 of the sheep. we then took rax off it cause he had no buy back.

REASON???


i was the only stun on the team at that time and he was rolling over us. The extra lockdown was needed for the kill but no one had the money or time to get a scythe except me who was fat as hell so i did.

as i said before.

scythe is legit on any hero if the situation requires it.

I WILL DESTROY YOU ALL.... WITH FLUFFY BUNNIES


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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Blubbles » September 4, 2015 4:33am | Report
I'd rather get Shivas or Abyssal or DK.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Sando » September 4, 2015 7:46am | Report
I'd agree with Cuttle and Sandvitch - it's never a truly bad item, ever, but there are plenty of heroes/situationals where Abyssal Blade is better.

It's a bit like Heart of Tarrasque - that's never a terrible item either, there can just be many times when they are better choices.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by AngeloBangelo » September 4, 2015 8:16am | Report
It's usually one of the last items to get on your hero. How many times do you see a scythe of vyse in a tournament game? Honestly, I don't feel that you see them that often. Sometimes an int mid with mobility (like a puck or qop) can pick it up, but for the most part you will see it picked up rarely. It's a good item in theory, but it IS situational if you're using it as efficiently as possible in fights.

Who are you going to sheep in a fight? The carry, probably. What does sheep accomplish? Low move speed, disable, silence. So it takes a hero out of the game for 4 seconds. Look at the value per hero. If you hex a support, you may be eliminating a hero with one thousand net worth. Now if you sheep a carry, you are removing a hero with ten thousand or more net worth. That means a larger investment is nullified, and that is usually the best choice. (Sometimes Youll hex an aba or something if you have a bat, but usually you'll want the carry if possible and silence for the aba). The problem is that in a team fight, let's say you want to hex gyro: You walk up, he BKBs and shreds your team before BKB wears off. Now even if you blink and hex, you need positioning and DPS for those 4 seconds or he will satanic and gain it all back.

Sheep stick needs support items ( DPS only available through either raw +dmg, armor reduction, attack speed, or crit) to supplement the disable.

Consider this: You are a support in a tri lane and your carry is a PA. You can have either a Dagon 5, or a sheep stick one minute into the laning phase. It just appears. Which is superior? Dagon 5 is better because static numbers are stronger early game due to lower stats (such as health). Let's say it's 90 minutes into the game and your PA fully farmed. Now which would you choose? Probably a sheep, because PA can one shot certain carries, which could lead to a win. Even if you wanted to change up the items from a Dagon to something else, sheep stick usually loses.

Again, it's a good item in theory but there's a reason you rarely see it at a professional level: It needs other conditions to combo off of the hex (a blink vs a BKB carry, high DPS, ideally armor reduction).

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Timminatorr » September 4, 2015 8:42am | Report
Sando wrote:

I'd agree with Cuttle and Sandvitch - it's never a truly bad item, ever, but there are plenty of heroes/situationals where Abyssal Blade is better.

It's a bit like Heart of Tarrasque - that's never a terrible item either, there can just be many times when they are better choices.

Ohhhhhh tikwa. I heavily disagree with that, heart can be extremely awefull a lot of times.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by ChiChi » September 4, 2015 9:42am | Report
Smuggels wrote:

Scythe is legit on any hero as long as the situation requires it.


This. 'Nough said. So the real question is why your teammate thinks Glimmer Cape is better, since we all can start saying heroes with which in the late game would be very stupid to have one ( Medusa, Anti-Mage, etc. - imagine them with the Hex, and it is not as stupid)

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Xyrus » September 4, 2015 10:20am | Report

It's usually one of the last items to get on your hero. How many times do you see a scythe of vyse in a tournament game? Honestly, I don't feel that you see them that often. Sometimes an int mid with mobility (like a puck or qop) can pick it up, but for the most part you will see it picked up rarely. It's a good item in theory, but it IS situational if you're using it as efficiently as possible in fights.

Who are you going to sheep in a fight? The carry, probably. What does sheep accomplish? Low move speed, disable, silence. So it takes a hero out of the game for 4 seconds. Look at the value per hero. If you hex a support, you may be eliminating a hero with one thousand net worth. Now if you sheep a carry, you are removing a hero with ten thousand or more net worth. That means a larger investment is nullified, and that is usually the best choice. (Sometimes Youll hex an aba or something if you have a bat, but usually you'll want the carry if possible and silence for the aba). The problem is that in a team fight, let's say you want to hex gyro: You walk up, he BKBs and shreds your team before BKB wears off. Now even if you blink and hex, you need positioning and DPS for those 4 seconds or he will satanic and gain it all back.

Sheep stick needs support items ( DPS only available through either raw +dmg, armor reduction, attack speed, or crit) to supplement the disable.

Consider this: You are a support in a tri lane and your carry is a PA. You can have either a Dagon 5, or a sheep stick one minute into the laning phase. It just appears. Which is superior? Dagon 5 is better because static numbers are stronger early game due to lower stats (such as health). Let's say it's 90 minutes into the game and your PA fully farmed. Now which would you choose? Probably a sheep, because PA can one shot certain carries, which could lead to a win. Even if you wanted to change up the items from a Dagon to something else, sheep stick usually loses.

Again, it's a good item in theory but there's a reason you rarely see it at a professional level: It needs other conditions to combo off of the hex (a blink vs a BKB carry, high DPS, ideally armor reduction).

Smuggels wrote:

Scythe is legit on any hero as long as the situation requires it.

Sanvitch wrote:

I think it is situationally legit on every hero in the game without exception. That much I will say; There are a lot of heroes where Abyssal Blade is technically better because of the damage, but in the end a Hex is a Hex, and thus justifiable on anything.


Scythe of Vyse is only good for control. In some cases it's basically useless and you'd be better off with a different offensive or defensive item.

TheSofa wrote:

Think Ursa.

Scythe of Vyse is a great pickup that is good on any hero in a situation that requires it.

Meaning that if the situation requires it, it doesn't matter who you get it on, you need it.

However, if you don't need it, then... it doesn't makes sense to get it on Dragon Knight does it?

Ultimately, these are all correct answers. There isn't a single Hero who doesn't benefit from Scythe of Vyse, the only reason to not pick up a Scythe of Vyse is if you either benefit more from another Item, or if you cannot afford a Sheepstick.
Sanvitch wrote:

I also have no idea why you wouldn't buy it on Lion or SS eventually; Having two Hex's without needing Refresher is insane, even if it no longer applies break.

This ^

7 or 7.5 seconds of lockdown on one Hero, or 3.5 to 4 on 2 Heroes in the Late Game is amazing, the only issue is Farming it on these Heroes.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by ChiChi » September 4, 2015 10:40am | Report
Sticky note:

"All I'm saying is that you shouldn't close your eyes for the items that give you things you may need, because you may come across a match that "asks" for an unusual item, and if that happens, if you have your eyes shut for different builds, you will always be less than you could be as a player."
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by michimatsch » September 4, 2015 10:47am | Report
Your comments leave me wondering. Although I understand that some carries don't want it and some supports need other items the Lion part makes me wonder.
He is my favorite hero and my usual progression is Tranquill Boots> Force Staff>
situational: Glimmer Cape; Blink Dagger; Scythe of Vyse
I always get the scythe if i feel like I will have the money soon. And it never felt like a bad choice.
Is it or is it not?

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by ChiChi » September 4, 2015 10:50am | Report
I also like Lion very much, and I don't think you're doing it wrong. Indeed you need some things more than Scythe asap (items for positioning and some survivibility) but once you have that you can go into even more disable, and I don't see nothing wrong with it. Aghs is very situational and not that necessary on him, Shiva's also very, very situational, and so on, so IMO your chosen items are the best ones.

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