Help Support Our Growing Community

DOTAFire is a community that lives to help every Dota 2 player take their game to the next level by having open access to all our tools and resources. Please consider supporting us by whitelisting us in your ad blocker!

Want to support DOTAFire with an ad-free experience? You can support us ad-free for less than $1 a month!

Go Ad-Free
Smitefire logo

Join the leading DOTA 2 community.
Create and share Hero Guides and Builds.

Create an MFN Account






Or

7.05 is out

Please review our General Rules & Guidelines before posting or commenting anywhere on DOTAFire.

Forum » General Discussion » 7.05 is out 34 posts - page 3 of 4
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Hamstertamer » April 13, 2017 2:05am | Report
ChiChi wrote:

I really dislike not upgrading her boots because it makes you have zero sustain.


Upgrading to Tranquil Boots : costs 575 gold, gives sustain for you, a bit of MS, and nothing for your team

Urn of Shadows : costs 875 gold, gives sustain for your entire team, and gives 120 HP

Brown boots into urn >>> tranquils. Tranquils are just unnecessary.
Strategy guide : Anti-pubstomper guide.
Hero guides : Spectre , Windranger and Clinkz
== Broodmother guide out! ==

Hamstertamer
<Editor>

Awards Showcase
Show more awards

Memorable (89)
Posts: 2620
View My Blog
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by ChiChi » April 13, 2017 3:25am | Report
I run out of sustain way before getting Urn of Shadows though, and you need successfull ganks/team fights immediately to get it back. So I definitelly prefer getting the cheaper Tranquil Boots before on some side shop and roam the map quicker and always at full health :)

Credits to Janitsu!

Ammateurs coaching channel iei! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOBsWN_45WjrRXLAWUqeyaA

ChiChi
<Veteran>

Awards Showcase
Show more awards

Remarkable (47)
Posts: 1559
Steam: Chi-Chi
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Yellulzquiet Reborn » April 13, 2017 7:08am | Report
ChiChi wrote:

_________________________________________________________________

Ah, Shadow Shaman buffs: because high level games were still not playing the hero. It is a greedy support that doesn't work well from behind and that fell off too much having his disables completely blocked by Black King Bar (a bit like CM), while enemy cores kind of easily farmed the snakes late game. They keep buffing him to try to actually make him a more viable hero. I agree with that, seemsgood. Let's see something like a #3 Shaman please.


I think he can snowball pretty fast early on, sure he does not work from behind, but he has too much impact early on, if you gank mid and catch him then he is dead, you can push towers with ult, split push, it is very difficult to fall back with him.Different from CM, his snakes bypass enemy bkb,if they try to bkb + blink they need to destroy your snakes before, because if they focus you can use Glimmer Cape/ Force Staff/ Ghost Scepter/Euls and after stun him for 13s+.Also you dont need to play on his snakes, the strengh of the hero is his stuns, that can be long duration and range.

#3 Shaman wont work because he is **** on lane and cant farm the jungle, only in 2-3k mmr games, he is a better 4 greedy sup

Yellulzquiet Reborn


Notable (4)
Posts: 59
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by ChiChi » April 13, 2017 8:26am | Report



I think he can snowball pretty fast early on, sure he does not work from behind, but he has too much impact early on, if you gank mid and catch him then he is dead, you can push towers with ult, split push, it is very difficult to fall back with him.Different from CM, his snakes bypass enemy bkb,if they try to bkb + blink they need to destroy your snakes before, because if they focus you can use Glimmer Cape/ Force Staff/ Ghost Scepter/Euls and after stun him for 13s+.Also you dont need to play on his snakes, the strengh of the hero is his stuns, that can be long duration and range.

#3 Shaman wont work because he is **** on lane and cant farm the jungle, only in 2-3k mmr games, he is a better 4 greedy sup


You're actually right about the snowballing potential, and maybe still too hard for him to be a #3 on a decent game (then again, I see those #3 Pucks all the time now O.o). Problem is he doesn't compare to the other 4 greedy positions that are being played in the last meta, like Earth Spirit, that offer way more in the form of long range initiation and play making, and aren't greedy at all. If he manages to actually become an alternative to those heroes, it would be great to see him again more on higher level games...

Credits to Janitsu!

Ammateurs coaching channel iei! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOBsWN_45WjrRXLAWUqeyaA

ChiChi
<Veteran>

Awards Showcase
Show more awards

Remarkable (47)
Posts: 1559
Steam: Chi-Chi
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Hamstertamer » April 13, 2017 10:31am | Report
The greed is not a real issue Chichi. Shadow Shaman doesn't have to be greedy. I like him with midas because midas is the best item in the game, but he can play perfectly well with almost no farm if you want. #5 shaman with Aether Lens as only item all game is completely viable.

His aghs is actually pretty meh so you generally don't even want that. Only a positioning item and standard support stuff. So he's far less item-dependant than, say, Witch Doctor.

Also remember to max Hex early before your other skills. The skill sucks at low levels.
Strategy guide : Anti-pubstomper guide.
Hero guides : Spectre , Windranger and Clinkz
== Broodmother guide out! ==

Hamstertamer
<Editor>

Awards Showcase
Show more awards

Memorable (89)
Posts: 2620
View My Blog
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Masked_Man98 » April 13, 2017 1:27pm | Report
TheSofa wrote:

tbh I have no idea what you guys are talking about...

When I play CM I end the game with boots + glimmer, either force/ghost scepter and a million clarities.

Most of the time I don't even upgrade my boots, let alone have money for medallion and urn and stuff like that...


Yep that's what I've done in my matches with lion today (bought a new lap top yeahhh) TB is no longer viable for him and other boot choices are **** for him arcan boot pudge is viable but what the hell is a lion who never has mana issues gonna do?
I save that extra gold to buy a chain mail that will end up turning into solar crest or just a medallion of courage for some mor armor and more killing potential for my carry
What do you build for lion after patch 7.05 changes on TB??
Brave Travelers Tell Stories of A Legendary Warrior Who Freezes The Heart of His Enemies And Burns Their Untouchable Souls
List of my guide Here
The UnTold:Dawn,Blizzard, Dire
Follow me on Instagram For more Updates @soroush_s77

Masked_Man98

Awards Showcase
Show more awards

Remarkable (20)
Posts: 188
View My Blog
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Hamstertamer » April 13, 2017 1:47pm | Report
Masked_Man98 wrote:

what the hell is a lion who never has mana issues gonna do?


Arcanes. That's actually the most common boots on him in competitive, even before the tranquils nerf.

Actually Lion *does* have mana issues. His mana pool is garbage, just like CM. He doesn't have enough mana to use spike + hex + finger in a teamfight. Even spike + level 2 finger is only possible if full mana.

Also going arcanes allows him to "skip" Mana Drain (put 2 points in it at most), and max Q and W.
Having a 4 second low cooldown Hex much earlier is great.
Strategy guide : Anti-pubstomper guide.
Hero guides : Spectre , Windranger and Clinkz
== Broodmother guide out! ==

Hamstertamer
<Editor>

Awards Showcase
Show more awards

Memorable (89)
Posts: 2620
View My Blog
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Yellulzquiet Reborn » April 13, 2017 1:58pm | Report
Hamstertamer wrote:

The greed is not a real issue Chichi. Shadow Shaman doesn't have to be greedy. I like him with midas because midas is the best item in the game, but he can play perfectly well with almost no farm if you want. #5 shaman with Aether Lens as only item all game is completely viable.

His aghs is actually pretty meh so you generally don't even want that. Only a positioning item and standard support stuff. So he's far less item-dependant than, say, Witch Doctor.

Also remember to max Hex early before your other skills. The skill sucks at low levels.

It is really a good idea to max hex first on him ? it only gives 0,75s/lvl and more mana, Shackles gives you the same 0,75s/lvl, up to 5s maxed with a powerful DoT.And you still has Ether shock that sucks on lvl 1 but can destroy creep waves on lvl 4

Yellulzquiet Reborn


Notable (4)
Posts: 59
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Hamstertamer » April 13, 2017 2:02pm | Report

It is really a good idea to max hex first on him ? it only gives 0,75s/lvl and more mana, Shackles gives you the same 0,75s/lvl, up to 5s maxed with a powerful DoT.And you still has Ether shock that sucks on lvl 1 but can destroy creep waves on lvl 4


What I mean is go 3/4/2 or 2/4/2.

Hex scales better than shackles. Both is 0.75 second disable / level, but shackles can be cancelled, hex can't.

Don't be fooled by the shackles damage. 72 damage per second at max level is pathetic. You'll deal more DPS by hexing someone and right-clicking him.
Strategy guide : Anti-pubstomper guide.
Hero guides : Spectre , Windranger and Clinkz
== Broodmother guide out! ==

Hamstertamer
<Editor>

Awards Showcase
Show more awards

Memorable (89)
Posts: 2620
View My Blog
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by ChiChi » April 13, 2017 3:35pm | Report
Hamstertamer wrote:

The greed is not a real issue Chichi. Shadow Shaman doesn't have to be greedy. I like him with midas because midas is the best item in the game, but he can play perfectly well with almost no farm if you want. #5 shaman with Aether Lens as only item all game is completely viable.

His aghs is actually pretty meh so you generally don't even want that. Only a positioning item and standard support stuff. So he's far less item-dependant than, say, Witch Doctor.

Also remember to max Hex early before your other skills. The skill sucks at low levels.


I disagree. I think one of the reasons why we see literally zero Shadow Shaman in competitive is because the hero doesn't really do much without items. He's viable in pubs alright, but which hero isn't. A poor SS in high level is just food for the enemy cores - and I'd never, ever compare him to Witch Doctor, who works way better without any items whatsoever, because his mix of magical and physical plus sustain just scales way better. Both WD and CM have very nice pick rates last patches as #5 both. SS? It has been months since I saw one. I'd think he's more similar to the likes of a Lion but then again, I've also seen plenty of those, and none SS. This is also the reason why he is being buffed, trying to make him an actual alternative to all of these heroes we've talked about - there are better poor #5s and way better #4s. Basically his pushing potential hasn't been good enough. No idea what's gonna happen now though, with the constant talent buffs.

Credits to Janitsu!

Ammateurs coaching channel iei! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOBsWN_45WjrRXLAWUqeyaA

ChiChi
<Veteran>

Awards Showcase
Show more awards

Remarkable (47)
Posts: 1559
Steam: Chi-Chi

Quick Reply

Please log in or sign up to post!

DOTAFire is the place to find the perfect build guide to take your game to the next level. Learn how to play a new hero, or fine tune your favorite DotA hero’s build and strategy.

Copyright © 2019 DOTAFire | All Rights Reserved