6.87 Discussion Thread

If you're the real OSFrog then pls tell me(even if you're not, whatever, I need some1 to tell me, I just can't fathom why has that happened):

Why was Zet put into the ****ing dumpster while literally all of the patch cancer except OD was only "nerfed"(a.k.a given some "**** off Reddit" treatment with no actual hero issues addressed)? Why did that happen? Of all the heroes only PA was hit so hard(and she was already in comatose state in the first place) this patch.

Oh and also I think you should stop reading Reddit that much. Putting Storm into dumpster in a similar fashion was also Reddit's doing as you probably remember well yourself.

About the new aghs upgrade for Skywrath Mage.

I think it is actually pretty bad since you will almost never have someone who stands 12 seconds at the same place. It may be optional however when you have a long lockdown like Duel.

Hero combos are going to be really important during this patch and personally I think Morphling is going to get picked alot since his ult is now so devastating when combined with another strong hero.

Dazzle and Huskar may return again since Huskar got this amazing attackspeed buff and a lot of the items like armlet are in his favor.

The Gyrocopter aghs upgrade seems really bad. It's just one rightclick attack every 1.4 seconds, I don't think it is going to do much.

The tower aura is really nice and limits tower diving so I guess that that is good.


Pubs are going to become worse and worse since dota is getting way more team orientated, individual actions have way lower impact so people better learn to play togheter.

Ok I've checked this in lobby, Demolish actually makes earth deal 2.5x damage to buildings, this is not an error. Nice.

And Windwalk doesn't work on buildings for some reason. Also brew with vlads, ac and lvl 3 ulti gets a tier 2 tower down in 10 seconds and t3 in 15 seconds. And in about 20 seconds he gets both raxes down. Pretty neat I think.

For a reference, lvl 19 Clinkz with BoTs, Deso, BKB, Hex and HotD(with eaten 1.4k hp creep) gets a T2 down in 7 seconds and he's considered one of the best tower dmg dealers in the game.

OK, so Brew is actually a good pusher.
I did the math for 1.5 not 2.5 so forget what I wrote. Earth now deals double damage to buildings compared to 6.86. That's actually a decent buff.
Maybe rat Brew is even a thing. Pandas need no armor.



Of course it doesn't. It's like Shadow Blade. No surprise there.



Each patch there's people saying that. But each patch pubs come down to picking OSFrog cores and solo carrying feeding teams. Why should 6.87 be any different? Hell, even competitive is like that more than you might think - just look at EG's drafts for example, all I've seen them do in the past months is spam meta picks with no synergy. Just because there are options for teamwork doesn't mean they're better than what a good player can do on his own on a good hero. It's a good thing to encourage teamwork, but that doesn't make it a requirement :)

(Morph's replicate change doesn't do much in practice, since the true value of the skill is as a global positioning skill, not as a way to summon an illusion. It makes Morph a bit better against deathball lineups, just a tiny bit, by e.g replicating the enemy DK hitting your tower during a push. But all in all it's pretty much only a buff to support Morph and has no tangible impact on carry Morph. Essentially it gives damage output to support Morph by right-clicking with his illusion while stunning enemies for 4 seconds.)



Nah, I'm captain Ginyu XD

I think there';s not enough attention paid to minor overall game changes.

Like hp per str, mana per int, base hp and mana: pretty much makes dumb str heroes better and smart int eggheads worse.

Then this creep aggro which lets you harass way more if you're ranged vs melee or long-ranged vs short-ranged.

Also this wave exp overhaul - denying just one ranged creep is a 45 exp toll on your enemy which can add up really quickly, esp. if you are some hero with good attack damage .

Also those raindrops - I think they are ridiculous, how are you supposed to play heroes like Lina when every hero can get himself a mini-Pipe 3 mins into the game?

These are a pretty big damn deal I think.

Edit: oh also:



Welcome to the dumpster again.

Judges ruling... EERRRNNN. The Double Shadow Blade Damage cant be ignored. Thats 350 + Right Click Damage in one attack. I was trying it yesterday and I took out an OD in about 3 hits. On Sven it is boderline stupid because that Damage really adds up. And hey why not buy both? Together they're about 7k. Slark and Sven have that kind of gold. They will always have that kind of gold.

Well I couldn't know that the item was glitched so that shadowblade would proc twice just by reading the patch notes, could I?
Still even then I'm not 100% sold yet. Slark is about chasing people to steal their stats, not about instant burst.

I saw an arc warden game and marvelled at how this hero can affect the macro game, turning it into a tower takedown fest with a naked rapier , sitting in base and doing nothing otherwise.

Early game he dove towers with impunity, and still didn't take any downside whatsoever because of the tempest double. I was angry at double Midas abuse that made him level as good as the opposing mid , if not better. He was the terrorblade of 6.86 and rightly got the treatment for being so.
You can go Daedalus mkb if your u want but it will take a ****-ton of time and that's what I want.
He doesn't fit in the grand scheme of things right now because if he did he destroys balance, as I foresee.

What is more pertinent to note here is arc can take down towers and actually play good 1v9 tactic. I don't want this namby pamby nonsense. He should coordinate with the team. Even a ****ing broodmother does it. My dearest top kekkies do it. Why shouldn't he?


OD is fine as he is. He isn't a seige engine and his laning is comparatively muted. He fights he wins if left unchecked, people had problems with arcane orb being OP so I rolled back a change. I think it is a correct decision that hero shouldn't be 3 shotting supports with no items as it is. His team fight is good and promotes reliance on teammates , so no need there. Currently experimenting on how to remove the UAM off of him, but it doesn't seem likely in the very near future.

I like depressed girls. They take liking to frozen amphibians working 20hour days to keep millions happy. That ways I tell them I save the world and I get *benefits*. PA is a nice gal. She will have her day. Kappa.

No seriously, I know she needs something to be made a viable pick, but there is huge abuse potential with her. She will be viable if:
1. Damage items are buffed.
2. RNjesus smiles on her with a new distribution scheme for her ulti
3. Evasion is buffed
4. Meta goes to early mid skirmish
5. Her late game is salvaged in some manner
6. Break mechanics are tweaked
7. She is able to stick.to targets

Until then, buy echo saber and silver edge yourself then proceed to laugh at people who won't know what hit then. Why aren't people building her butility is beyond me. They just keep chasing damage. Just go anti armor or maelstrom HoTD. No one's gonna kill you by true strike in early game. Itemize accordingly!

Kyphoid, what happened to you? You're talking more sense than I've ever seen before... hell, you're talking more sense than most of the regulars here!

I want to believe... you really are the frog, aren't you?

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