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7 Votes

Ember Spirit - [6.85] THE NEW META

November 20, 2015 by BlueGangsta
Comments: 19    |    Views: 19158    |   


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InfuriatedBrute (2) | December 9, 2015 7:46pm
BlueGangsta wrote:

The reason I put Eye of Skadi as a possible core item is not because of it's UAM, but for the stats it gives Ember Spirit.



Just. Lol. So many stat items are better than Skadi. Seriously, a bloodstone is better (2/3s the price, gives tons of regen and decreases respawn wait). And bloodstone is such a great item on Ember, amirite? To recommend a Skadi as core without the UAM is just hilariously stupid.

Plus your guide is all over the place. In the "picture summary" you have 5 different builds with only slight differences, with no clear explanation of when you should pick one over the other. You don't even mention the purpose of items that you consider very important such as Linken's sphere and call me out for not reading the 6000 word wall of text. This wall of text spams random facts that become obvious the moment that you play Ember Spirit ("His w does AoE damage. It makes you invincible") rather than giving actually insightful summaries as to WHAT THE ITEMS ARE ACTUALLY GOOD FOR COMPARED TO OTHER ITEMS. It's a terrible guide that is at least three times as long as it should be, and five times less clear.


You totally respect my opinions rather than calling me a ****ing troll and ******. "I respect your opinions bruh but plz think before you speak because what you're saying is stupid AF." When we don't care about what you have to say, you call us idiots, and point out how "MY GUIDE IS AMAZING AF AND EXPLAINS NINETY PERCENT OF EMBER SPIRIT". Then later you say "You think anyone cares what you have to say? You think you're some kind of a Dota Guide Master?!"

Peace, I'm out. Respond to this comment if you want, I won't respond back.
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-BrokeN-BrokeN- (4) | December 2, 2015 8:19am
I never said I was some "supreme leader of Dotafire guides". Nor did I ever imply it. I'm not, not even remotely close. Having a critical opinion does not mean I necessarily think highly of myself.

Whether it's amazing or "fairly decent" is a matter of opinion. You need to get over the fact that I'm not calling your guide bad. It's not wrong. It's not misinforming. But in MY personal opinion, it's not GREAT. It takes a lot for a guide to be GREAT. Just because I think that doesn't mean I think highly of myself, it has nothing to do with me.

No, I'm not a hater. The guide is good. I keep telling you that, I'm not dissing the guide. I'm just saying you're greatly exaggerating how good it is, and as the author of the guide, it makes you seem very cocky.

I never ever said you could be amazing at a Hero just by reading a guide, nor did I imply it. But the more you know, the more you can learn to utilize that information. If you don't know what to practice, you can't practice it - and there will always be something more to practice. Always.

You literally mentioned 90% of Ember? This is the bit that really ticks me off. No, you didn't. There is not a single guide out there that does due to the massive amount of information that is. If you honestly want a list of things you could have included I can give you one but we both know it's a waste of time. On top of this, as the meta changes people discover different ways to play a Hero. This means that something will never be 90-100% complete because there will always be something that may work that someone has not tried yet.

"You sound like people actually need to give a **** about what you say."
Wow. No, it's simply constructive criticism. I made some points earlier on this guide pointing out things you could include (check back through the comments), and you seemed happy to listen then. So all positive feedback is ok, but any constructive criticism sets you off in a foul mood? No, simply take that and turn it into improvements for your guide. At least, that's what you SHOULD do.

"no body cares about whether you think my guide is fairly decent, or pretty good. Sorry. Lol."
This is partially what I meant by extremely cocky. And maybe not, but I do care, and I'm sure others may agree with some points I've made, while disagreeing with others. There is a reason your guide doesn't have a full rating, so clearly some people agree there are things you've missed. Overall the guide has a good rating though, so clearly most people agree that it's an overall solid guide - and that includes me. I gave it a thumbs up to. I've said this many many times, I never said the guide was bad, so stop acting like I did. I agree with most points of the guide, I just don't think it's PERFECT as you seem to make it out to be. There is no perfect guide to any Hero out there. Not one, it's simply a huge amount to ask for. I'm not saying this is a flaw, I'm just saying it is what it is.

"And no offense but you asked for this kind of response with your choice of words."
Exactly in the same way that you asked for this sort of response with your cockiness, and attitude towards criticism and complete disregard for other people's opinions. Dude, I'm just saying my thoughts, I'm not even saying it's a bad guide, which I feel like I need to remind you of at every given opportunity.

I'm not on any high horse or anything, I'm literally just stating my opinion. Having expectations doesn't mean I'm full of myself. I simply am very fond of the mindset that there is always room for improvement, in my own work as well as everybody else's. Don't take it so damn personally, I am critical of my own work in exactly the same way.


Also, could you please stop treating me like I have no understanding of the Hero or of guide writing at all in general? For someone accusing me of sitting atop a "high horse", you seem to be snuggly sat on your own, don't you think..?

I will say it one more time, just so there's absolutely no way you misunderstand. The. Guide. Is. Good. It has valuale information. ALL I'M SAYING IS it's not perfect, so don't act like it is. That's not a problem, but it is a problem when you're treating it like this guide is god's gift to creation. There is always room for improvement, in anything. Both you and I know that, so why are you so offended?

.-.
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BlueGangsta | December 2, 2015 5:56am
First of all, who made you the supreme leader of dots fire guides?

I never got the memo. Sorry.

Second of all, you're saying I'm cocky because I think my guide is amazing.

No, that was only a response to you saying my guide is "fairly decent", its better than fairly decent.

And I'm sorry if I sound harsh but I think you sound like a hater. Just give a guy some credit =]

Yes I could've included some more things, but like I said I can say anything in this guide but ultimately it comes down to PRACTICE AND APPLYING WHAT YOU LEARNED FROM TRIAL AND ERROR.

If you think you can become amazing at a hero just because you read a guide on dotafire I'm sorry you're wrong. You need to try the hero and see what works and why it doesn't work for yourself.

The only things I didn't mention are small things like don't leave your remnant in places your enemy can wait for you, projectiles still chase you when you use fire remnant to escape, and that searing chains does damage in increments, I literally mentioned 90% of ember.

The other 10% is trial and error from practice.

You sound like people actually need to give a **** about what you say like you are some kind of authority on dotafire, like the supreme ruler of guides.

Here is a news flash bro, no body cares about whether you think my guide is fairly decent, or pretty good. Sorry. Lol.

And no offense but you asked for this kind of response with your choice of words.

"fairly decent / wow you're cocky / you're ignorant"

Dude please get off your high horse. You are the one who is cocky, not me. I just know my guide is great. Anyone can learn tons from it if they are looking to improve their ember play.

That's all that matters. =]
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-BrokeN-BrokeN- (4) | December 2, 2015 4:53am
Jesus, you're cocky.

I'm not saying it's a bad guide, everything you've written here is definitely true and I agree with most of it, don't misunderstand. Also, I didn't say anything about people being new to Dota, but whatever that's irrelevant.

Yes I know Ember requires practice. You're taking to me as if I've never seen the Hero in my life before. But it's not just about practice, it's about understanding of the Hero and the Hero's mechanics. Please.

Again, the guide is good, but to say it covers every single thing? I'm sorry, not even close. Part of what's good about DotA is that there is no such thing as "every single thing", you should probably take that into account. There is a LOT more you could've written in this guide without repeating yourself, I'm not saying that it's a flaw with the guide, I'm just saying that to claim it covers "every single thing" is not true.

Again I'm not hating on your guide, but your attitude and ignorance is most certainly a weak-point. Sorry if I'm coming off as harsh, but I honestly believe this is the truth.
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BlueGangsta | December 2, 2015 12:52am
^^ Its not a fairly decent guide it's an amazing guide =]

Its just not meant for people who are brand new to dota. I do.not have the patience to try and explain everything about dota to them. Lol.

Ember requires practice. I can say anything in the guide but one has to practice to maximize his strengths.

I covered pretty much every single thing anyways. Ember is my most played hero so everything I covered is legit and applies to real matches.
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-BrokeN-BrokeN- (4) | November 30, 2015 2:42am
One thing I would like to say is that it's probably better to say that this covers the essentials of playing Ember Spirit and not that "it will teach you 90% of everything to do with Ember Spirit", as you put it, simply because there's a ridiculous amount you can go into depth on the Hero (and on any other) which is an area you don't really touch upon.

Don't misunderstand, I'm not saying this is an issue or that it takes away from the guide, I'm just saying it most definitely is not "90%" of all you can know. I would love to see a guide like that, personally I wrote quite a long guide on the Hero myself but I still wouldn't say it covers 90% of everything you need to know as that is simply so much information and there is always more to be learnt.

Also, in my personal opinion your excessive use of exclamation marks, capslock, slang, and other unnecessarily vivid punctuation is a little distracting and not overly pleasant to read - but that's down to tastes, and many people with argue that a more formal approach is just boring. So, to each his own.

Last thing, the title "New Meta" might be better off as "Current Meta". Relatively the current meta is rather new(ish), but at the same time it's not a ground-breaking unheard of new way of playing Ember. I just think it'd be more fitting to be titled "Current Meta" ^.^

It's up to you as the author though. Fairly decent guide, well done.
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BlueGangsta | November 29, 2015 5:43pm
ChiChi wrote:

This seems like solid **** ahah +1 for you.


THANKS BRO!!
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ChiChi (47) | November 29, 2015 9:22am
This seems like solid **** ahah +1 for you.
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BlueGangsta | November 29, 2015 7:58am
^^^ Bro. I am having a hard time trying to figure out if you're just trolling or if you are really asking me these questions.

"Okay. Usually I think new meta means a weird build, rather than a hero that's just coming into meta."

I personally do not care what you think is the new meta. New meta is not something set in stone, it can be a build, or it can be a hero who is now viable in the new patch for what ever reason it may be.


" I'm understanding correctly, is ****ing terrible because only one of the UAMs works in it lol."

WELL. You are understanding INCORRECTLY. Sorry. WELP.
The reason I put Eye of Skadi as a possible core item is not because of it's UAM, but for the stats it gives Ember Spirit. Ember has HORRIBLE stat gain. He needs more stats, and a bigger health and mana pool. You need the health for tankiness and the mana pool to cast more spells in fights.... YOU DONT GET THE SKADI FOR THE SLOW YOU GET IT FOR SURVIVABILITY.. AND THE SLOW COMES IN HANDY IF DESO IS NOT IN YOUR INVENTORY.

ALSO.. ONCE YOU HAVE Desolator AND Eye of Skadi, YOU CAN DROP THEM BOTH AND THE FIRST ONE YOU PICK UP WILL BE THE UAM THAT DOES WORK.. SO YOU GET THE ARMOR REDUCTION FROM DESO AND STILL KEEP THE TANKINESS FROM THE SKADI.

If you're playing Ember Spirit, and you feel the need to build stat items, but you think Manta Style or Sange and Yasha won't give you enough stats / hp / mana to survive and cast all your spells, Eye of Skadi is the best choice. Regardless of whether or not the UAM stacks with DESO.

AND ONE MORE THING.. IF YOU HAVE EYE OF SKADI AND DESOLATOR.. YOU CAN PRIORITIZE ONE BY HAVING IT BEFORE THE OTHER IN YOUR ITEM SLOTS.. AND WHEN YOU HIT TOWERS / BUILDINGS / RAX, DESOLATOR WILL ALWAYS WORK EVEN IF YOU HAVE EYE OF SKADI.


" If there are a lot of heroes with a lot more DPS then you can't really say ember has high DPS. His DPS is good, but it's definitely not "high"."

If you go to Dotabuff.com and go to "Heroes" and then go to "damage" you will see the Ember Spirit is listed HIGHER on the HERO DAMAGE list than both Sven and Phantom Assassin.
This is because throughout the course of a match, ember spirit is actually dealing more damage to the enemy heroes. I think you need a math lesson, so here you are.

Heroes like Sven, phantom assasssin, Templar Assassin do lots of burst physical damage, but only to SINGLE - TARGETS. With cleave and Templar's passive excluded because they are only going to provide extra damage in about 1/4th of your fights if your enemy has poor positioning.

Ember Spirit on the other hand does damage to EVERY SINGLE TARGET CAUGHT INSIDE THE Sleight of Fist RADIUS. So here is your math lesson.

If Sven / PA / TA are doing an average of 500 damage per hit, that is to a single target.

If Ember Spirit does 500 damage to 5 different heroes, that is 2500 damage.


2500 damage to entire enemy team > 500 dmg to a single target

Not to mention that when Sleight of Fist is on cool down, ember can still right click you. If he has armor reduction and a daedelus, that **** is going to HURT.

ALSO. YOU ARE ALSO MISSING OUT ON HUGE FACTOR.. Divine Rapier.. Other heroes who dish out lots of physical damage are not very good Divine Rapier holders.. Sven can be kited and killed easily with slows/stuns/ranged attacks.. Phantom Assassin is stopped by any DPS hero with a Monkey King Bar like wind ranger, Sven, Troll Warlord, Ursa....

Ember Spirit can actually get a Divine Rapier and have a great chance of never losing it. This is a HUGE factor in his potential DPS. Even if he loses the rapier, he can buy back, use Activate Fire Remnant to rejoin the fight scene.. and just pick it up.. You can even stack divine rapiers..

So please don't undermine Ember Spirit's damage output. THANKS BRUH.


"Ember's late-game strength isn't his DPS. It's his mobility."

Yeah you obviously have not played enough dota.

His strengths are BOTH his DAMAGE OUT PUT, &&&&&& his Mobility. BOTH. BOTH. NOT ONE, BOTH.
That's why in my POSITIVES, section, I have both the damage and his mobility mentioned. =)

"But it confuses me; in the text part you talk about Linken's Sphere but not in the picture build summary at the top. Why?"


There are tons of items on dota. Can i explain each one with a line of text in the beginning of the guide? rofl

I have a section dedicated to linken's sphere in the item justification section, you should not be asking me why I don't talk about it in the beginning of the guide.

???????????????????

I respect your opinions bro but please think about what you're saying before you say it. THANKS
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InfuriatedBrute (2) | November 28, 2015 11:05pm
BlueGangsta wrote:




"It's new meta because it's more viable now"

Okay. Usually I think new meta means a weird build, rather than a hero that's just coming into meta.




"3. How is more mobility bad?"

Obviously it's not. But +100% damage is way better than +10% mobility 99% of the time; diminishing returns is a thing in dota, that's why people don't buy five daedaluses. Still, it does seem like an okay item on ember, come to think of it. Ember's remnants are only instant cast time if used to escape, after all. Good thinking, I didn't consider that.


"UAMs work with everything ember does..?? LOL"

Yeah but they don't stack. So your so-called ideal build, if I'm understanding correctly, is ****ing terrible because only one of the UAMs works in it lol.



"Just because Sven and PA have high DPS doesn't mean Ember spirit doesnt have high DPS.. The ****??"

It does. If there are a lot of heroes with a lot more DPS then you can't really say ember has high DPS. His DPS is good, but it's definitely not "high".



"sven have to focus a small area"

lel. Also about where you said "sven is kitable". That was my point. Ember's late-game strength isn't his DPS. It's his mobility.



"I have a whole section on the linkens sphere and why you should / shouldn't get it.

you obviously didn't even read the guide. good job bro"

True, I didn't read all 2000 words. It seems like a pretty typical guide, and I don't read all 2000 words of every typical guide. But it confuses me; in the text part you talk about Linken's Sphere but not in the picture build summary at the top. Why?

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