Oh look, another Terrorblade thread

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Forum » Theory Crafting » Oh look, another Terrorblade thread 20 posts - page 1 of 2
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Terathiel » June 7, 2016 8:22am | Report
Hi fams

So I've been spam picking this guy even more than usual over the past couple of weeks, and I've never been more aware of how squishy I actually am. Like, even 6 slotted I feel so vulnerable, even though mathematically I'm not. I suppose it's because the other carries I get 6-slotted as regularly are Faceless Void, Spectre, Medusa and Morphling, all of which ARE known for being amazingly obnoxious to bring down. Especially since I've also been playing a lot of Void recently as well, so the contrast is especially stark.

So what's the point of this thread, and why is it in theory crafting?

It's a builds thing. The mere question of, 'when is enough, enough?'

I'm talking about Eye of Skadi. Buffing his BAT in Metamorphosis from 1.6 to 1.5 doesn't look like much to most people, but it was an INCREDIBLY big buff to his DPS which was already the highest in the game. So, I've cast aside all thoughts of damage items and instead I've been building to survive and actually do this damage. I've been getting double Skadi in basically every game I've played, and been greatly incensed I couldn't get a third because I needed MKB in most of those games.

Even with that, Terrorblade sits at less than 3k health. In a meta where most cores easily exceed that, this leads to a sense of vulnerability despite the 40+ armour. You get one Skadi, you're at 2k hp. You get a second Skadi, you're just cracking 3k (since you've been levelling as you get gold, one hopes). Get a third and then we're talking. And add Butterfly for good measure because nothing irritates a rival carry more than having to get an MKB when they'd rather something else.

But is this even a bad thing? I mean, build three Skadis on most heroes and you'll be laughed at as you attempt to tickle an enemy to death. But 3 Skadis on Terrorblade... well. Each Skadi gives you 25 damage and attack speed, and your illusions 15 damage and 25 attack speed, and then you add Manta for a total of about +70 damage. That's a lot, given that it's also an item that gives the highest effective hit points in the game. The fact that you've got 1.5 BAT leads to disgustingly fast attack speed too... with an eaten Moon Shard, the real TB has an attack speed of 0.33, which is only slightly slower than Morphling and Alchemist - and you're hitting for 400 each attack. It's gross. Add in 180% damage worth of illusions and you've got a recipe to choose and subsequently delete any target in a matter of seconds. Plus, you're sitting at 45 armour and 3.7k Health. Sadly, MKB cuts this down to 42 armour and 3k Health, but you gain a little bit of damage (which isn't worth it).

On a side note, is 3k Health tanky, because it really doesn't feel like it on Terrorblade. Void eats up nukes and spits them out again before bashing your head in, but TB?... everything dies so quickly. Is this a simple illusion (no pun) because you spent the first 25 minutes of the game dying to whatever nuker gave you a funny look? Or has the game really shifted enough that 3k Health, 42 armour and 35% evasion makes for a squishy hero? Or is it just that any fight with Terrorblade is all or nothing, since you don't have an escape and Sunder is surprisingly unreliable.

But why even bother with all of this? You've got +80 damage at 10 minutes. Stop *****ing around, get your team together and go force some fights. Stand at the back while some gullible muppet eats the magic damage, then go in and clean up. Is this really a separate item build? Do you throw a Dragon Lance in there, maybe a Silver Edge or even a Vanguard if you're really desperate. Infused Raindrop is a given, you always carry one around.

It's 1am and I'm ranting, so ease my insecurity. How many Skadis do you stack? What do you do to crush ****lords with Terrorblade? I'm becoming convinced it's a matter of 5-manning hard for the first 15 minutes before relaxing into a Naga-style rat while you farm up the aforementioned 3 Skadis. So it all sounds team dependent, and we all know how that works in pubs. I'm watching the Major for any hint of how the pros are playing TB, but all I've seen so far is terrible item builds by tier 2 teams (and I know how arrogant that sounds. But they're actually getting Vanguard over Dragon Lance. WHY.)
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by The Frosto » June 7, 2016 9:25am | Report
Hp on a carry feels always less than it is. My Chaos Knight build is Manta Style, Eye of Skadi, hearth of tarrasque, Satanic and than maybe something else and I sit on like 6k hp. You know I also always think that my illusions and my hero dies to fast. Maybe I just over extend but I just want to say that you never have enough hp.

For Terrorblade I mostly get Manta Style into Eye of Skadi into Butterfly. If I haven't end the game than I will just look at the enemy team. When they have rightclick I buy another Butterfly otherwise I build another skadi. Sometimes I will get a Daedalus instead but that is more when I'm owning really hard so that the extra damage is useful to get a rampage.

I don't think that Manta Style into 3 skadis is so good, and mostly my terrorblade games don't take that long anyway.

My Terrorblade playstyle is pretty much the same as I will play Lunaor Chaos Knight and in lesser degree Anti-Mage. I win my lane and try to make sure the enemy oflaners can't snowball to hard. Mostly I will try to get a towerkill with meta. When the laningstage is done I spam my illusions to every lane, like naga. I mostly don't fight unless I'm sure I won't die and that I will get kills. At the 25 minute I should have my Manta Style and Eye of Skadi and than I start fighting. But really after my Butterfly is finished the game is mostly over or just delayed but won by me.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Cuttleboss » June 7, 2016 9:33am | Report
3k Health, that is fine on its own, especially with your 40 armor. He is abnormally tanky against physical attacks. However, Terrorblade does not have mobility skills like many of those "survival" heroes, so having all that health doesn't mean much if everyone is aiming for you, that's why in many games, it seems like a Dragon Knight is not nearly as tanky as an Anti-Mage. Like, even Siren is tankier because she can song to buy herself time. It's the same reason that even when CK has 4.5k hp, he's not that hard to kill.

Speaking of CK, when I passed by to watch one of your TB games, it looked really easy to bait out your meta, which has the same cooldown as phantasm. I think having it slow down Terrorblade so much is one major reason he isn't as strong as you would like late game (unless you happen to be sieging), especially since unlike CK, he can't just catch up to and kill someone. It might be worth considering a Scythe of Vyse on him more often, so you can actually hit someone for a full 3 seconds without them running away (use that "highest dps in the game"), since it can be surprisingly hard to get that first skadi hit. However, if you have a team with great lockdown, you don't need to.

Looks like you need to get ahead on Terrorblade, so yeah, push early, then freeze the game at the exact point where you have all their T1s, and still have yours. Take the T2's slowly while farming all lanes, and defend your towers so you have that sweet space. Those seem like ideal conditions. Don't be overly passive on this hero, once you have like 2-3 core items (and a BKB if you need it), end the game. Don't drag out games needlessly, because the more disables and armor your enemies get their hands on, the less powerful Terrorblade becomes, he doesn't scale infinitely. No hero does.

Is there a reason to get more than 2 Skadis? What does the 6 slot TB look like? Travels, Pike (remember how slow your meta form is and how you need to hit people once to slow them), Manta/BKB, Skadi, Bfly, Skadi #2 or Satanic or MKB.


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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by ChiChi » June 7, 2016 10:00am | Report
Why isn't be being picked by top tier teams you think? I'm actually curious, I saw somewhere today that only 23 heroes total, if I'm not mistaken, remain unpicked, and we've seen funny **** come out of the big boys such as Undying and Sand King. Where is Mr. Tera, and why no love?

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Hamstertamer » June 7, 2016 10:41am | Report
When you stack the best item in the game several times, you get the best build in the game. How is that even a question? XD

The real question is, is rushing Hurricane Pike first item on TB a solution to the hero's early game issues? When your team is feeding all early game, the enemy team is 5-manning all the time and you just can't fight into them because the score is 5-20 or something and they have twice your max HP as burst... is constant ratting with plain boots into pike the answer? I really got to try that one.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by YellulzQuiet » June 7, 2016 1:15pm | Report
I buy boots > Wand/Aquila> Infused Raindrops > Dragon Lance > Yasha > Skadi > Manta > travels as everyone i guess but for late my prefer Choice is Octarine Core, better Rat, low cd of ult(30) and low cd of Metamorphose(105).

Anyone has trouble early-midgame because of burst ? with the introduction of Dragon lance and Infused Raindrops i think it is not a problem anymore

For late, i would say terror does not have 3k hp, he has 6k because of ult, carrying against tank late carries with terror seems IZI, you should not focus medusa, focus her team instead :0), so when you low you ult medusa, you can use Reflection as well and see enemy kill himself( heroes like medusa and spectre tend to build stats, so reflection is strong against them)


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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Kyphoid returns » June 7, 2016 9:12pm | Report
Here is a build you should try,
Phase boots, manta, dragon Lance, blink ,abyssal, Daedalus.

Sell phase for bots, substitute abyssal/bkb/satanic as needed. Don't rush vanguard. Phase +dragon Lance is priority.

End game in<35 mins. GGWP

Did I mention infused raindrops>wraith band?

It is

If you have reservations trying the build, then try it in 10v10 or any decent mod.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by ChiChi » June 8, 2016 2:55am | Report
And just as I ask it: http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2420842637

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Dimonychan » June 8, 2016 3:11am | Report
How did they even win that lol


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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by ChiChi » June 8, 2016 3:54am | Report
Hm? You think they shouldn't? The bit I saw seemed pretty one sided, they had great teamfight and great pick-off potential, and the Tera is 12-0-11 after all... But idk.

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