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How to Exit Vicious Cycle?

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Forum » New Player Help » How to Exit Vicious Cycle? 50 posts - page 1 of 5
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by chessgeek10 » November 22, 2014 2:40pm | Report
I'm not your typical noob.

I'm getting close to reaching 100 full games played. I have 0 abandons, and I spent about a week training with bots before trying out a real game when I started. I read all kinds of guides regularly, and study using youtube as well. I know a lot about the game you wouldn't expect someone with 100 games to know.

My problem:

I'm in a vicious cycle with my solo non-ranked MMR, and I can't get out.

Most games I play I'm set up with a team of noobs; just like me but a bit worse when it comes to knowledge. As in, most of them auto attack and push lane too early in the game. The opposing team is, well, made up of noobs too, but they win most games because they choose the same op characters over and over again. Since I keep losing, my solo non-ranked MMR (matchmaking rating) keeps dropping, and the game places with even noobier characters than before.

Now I know what you're probably thinking. You'll say that there's no such thing as an op character: they're all perfectly balanced. That is completely true when it comes to the experienced games, but not at all with players of my level.

The reason: Carries.
At this stage of the game, everyone feeds. Heck, even I feed! But I try my hardest to maintain distance, even though my team rarely does the same.

Carries capitalize on this downfall of having a low MMR. Carries easily gain many kills throughout the entire game, even during the beginning. With this pattern, people rarely choose supports or other roles.

Here's a typical game at my level:As you probably guessed, the team on the left is my opponent. They chose 5 of the top 6 most overpowered carries (for my level), with only viper losing the #5 spot to phantom lancer. Each of these has easy ways of ganking without putting themselves at risk. Riki has his perma-invisibility, sniper his range, lancer his constant illusions, bloodseeker rupture, huskar berserkers blood, etc.

Yeah, they won. Without supports, without tanks, just carries. These types of games are over before they begin, skill usually has little to do with it. As much as I love getting away from games like these , where people choose only the same 20 or so characters, random draft gives me no chance to improve my own characters.

Every game uses the same characters, and it's starting to make me sick. I try not to use them myself, so I don't ruin the games for others, yet if I don't, I most definitely lose. This drops my MMR, and I get placed with even more noobier teamates, for another round of feeding. This vicious cycle may be the end of me.

My question for you:
How do I overcome the teams of 4-5 carries and increase my MMR so I can play with more experienced players, with the same knowledge base as I do:

Please help; I could use some suggestions and advice.

chessgeek10



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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by F.E.A.R.0 » November 22, 2014 3:09pm | Report
When you said you know all about the game , your just lying to yourself. No, you don't know everything yet just with reading guides and watching youtube videos on how to improve. You need to experience more than just 100 games. The higher you get the better. On your level you will have to choose a carry like everyone and do your best to win. That's just how it is on low level games, you can't have a team with 2 supports 2 carries and 1 initiator. I hate Valve's match making system, you see when you win and get on more higher level (of course you can't always win you will have to lose sometimes, but this is where the problem lies), it will then match you up with noobs whom you will constantly lose a lot of games in a row. This what I hate about Valve's match making, instead going higher you going down to the ground.

Valve keeps good players MMR's low intentionally otherwise they could be potentially picked up by pro teams which could destabilize the established "stars" of Dota 2 competitive scene like Arteezy, NeVo.Dondex etc which makes the game less profitable in the long run.

Also you need to know a lot of things about the game, especially the mechanics because Dota has the most complex mechanics compare to other MOBAS. This is why I said your just lying to yourself knowing all about the game. I play Dota for 7 years and I still find new stuff.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by chessgeek10 » November 22, 2014 3:39pm | Report
F.E.A.R.0 wrote:

When you said you know all about the game , your just lying to yourself. No, you don't know everything yet just with reading guides and watching youtube videos on how to improve. You need to experience more than just 100 games. The higher you get the better. On your level you will have to choose a carry like everyone and do your best to win. That's just how it is on low level games, you can't have a team with 2 supports 2 carries and 1 initiator. I hate Valve's match making system, you see when you win and get on more higher level (of course you can't always win you will have to lose sometimes, but this is where the problem lies), it will then match you up with noobs whom you will constantly lose a lot of games in a row. This what I hate about Valve's match making, instead going higher you going down to the ground.

Valve keeps good players MMR's low intentionally otherwise they could be potentially picked up by pro teams which could destabilize the established "stars" of Dota 2 competitive scene like Arteezy, NeVo.Dondex etc which makes the game less profitable in the long run.

Also you need to know a lot of things about the game, especially the mechanics because Dota has the most complex mechanics compare to other MOBAS. This is why I said your just lying to yourself knowing all about the game. I play Dota for 7 years and I still find new stuff.

First of all, that is very insulting. Your entire argument is based on the statement "you don't know anything", which is completely irresponsible.

Secondly, I never said I knew everything there possibly is to know.
I said exactly: "I know a lot about the game you wouldn't expect someone with 100 games to know." In a nutshell I was only trying to explain to people like you that I am more knowledgeable than many other players at my level.

I appreciate your "try to help", but I was hoping for some other advice than "just play the carries like every other noob out there."

chessgeek10



Posts: 9
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by F.E.A.R.0 » November 22, 2014 3:54pm | Report
chessgeek10 wrote:


First of all, that is very insulting. Your entire argument is based on the statement "you don't know anything", which is completely irresponsible.

Secondly, I never said I knew everything there possibly is to know.
I said exactly: "I know a lot about the game you wouldn't expect someone with 100 games to know." In a nutshell I was only trying to explain to people like you that I am more knowledgeable than many other players at my level.

I appreciate your "try to help", but I was hoping for some other advice than "just play the carries like every other noob out there."

I didn't insult you, unless that's how you think of it. There's no other choice in low pub games other than that to play as a carry. I've done the same to when I first started to play Dota 2 and not to mention it was worse back on Garena days. 5 man carrying without Black King Bar and wining the game. Good old days. Like I said there's no other way to climb up from the bottom unless you play as a carry and do your best. And the Valve thing I said is true because I and a lot of players experienced it and it's so frustrating when your exactly on the edge of wining every game and then suddenly it matches you up with noobs who can't do anything and losing constantly. You will have a hard time climbing up the ladder. If you believe there's another way perhaps other members can answer your question.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Krwiozerca » November 22, 2014 4:20pm | Report
F.E.A.R.0 wrote:

When you said you know all about the game , your just lying to yourself.


What is your problem, mate? He didn't say that at all and especially he didn't mean it. You can tell by reading a whole post. His post is wrote in a rather modest manner.

It's obviously a good thing that you were reading about a game a lot, but this also has a Double Edge, unfortunately. Now you see your allies mistakes and it possibly drives you crazy, as you can see how pointless are their actions. The more mistakes you can see, the more frustrated you are.

My advice for you: Keep playing, don't lose hope and I can assure you that the moment will come, when you will find good teammates on regular basis. Many players you are now playing with will abandon Dota and will never come back again. Only those with the greatest Perseverance will stay.

That's my DotaBUFF. Add me on Steam and maybe we can play some time.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Timminatorr » November 22, 2014 4:22pm | Report
yes low level games like this suck, but to be honest 100 games isnt that much yet. even though that sounds weird if you compare it to other games.

right now the best thing to do for you is probably to find someone to play with together at your same skill level, or someone who is willing to coach a bit. or both.

the game is much more enjoyable when played with friends at a lot of the lower levels, including my solo MMR level.
just remember to not play ranked yet, you will only end up in a low MMR and regret it later. believe me a lot of us have. :P

what region do you play?

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Xyrus » November 22, 2014 4:25pm | Report
The best solution to Solo Pubs always has been and always will be:- Find a 5-stack, you'll have more fun with a casual gathering of friends/like-minded individuals than with 4 complete strangers.

The next best solution would be to pick Roamers like Earth Spirit, Mirana, Pudge, etc. and Snowball your way to victory by annihilating the other Team and hoping your Team have enough knowledge to realise that pressing the advantage and Pushing will win the game. Problem is, the necessary skills to do this require experience, although you'll have much more fun with the game when you learn to Roam successfully, it's incredibly gratifying! <}3 ...but better done with a 5-stack to start out with.

For now, I recommend Supporting. Not the proper way with coordinated Ganks and Warding or protecting your Carry's Farm, but the way most typical Pub Supports Support, by sitting in Lane and Denying Creeps...expect, pick Silencer and max Curse of the Silent first. You will make n00bs suffer with this, as they have no concept of Positioning and some may not even buy Regen at the start, you may even find some that are dumb enough to die to this simple but effective form of Harrassment. I can't guarantee it will work every game, only that it will usually make someone on the other Team cry "OP!". 8{)
Timminatorr wrote:

just remember to not play ranked yet, you will only end up in a low MMR and regret it later. believe me a lot of us have. :P

*Looks at his own 2.2k MMR and sobs* T-T

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by F.E.A.R.0 » November 22, 2014 5:00pm | Report
Krwiozerca wrote:

What is your problem, mate? He didn't say that at all and especially he didn't mean it. You can tell by reading a whole post. His post is wrote in a rather modest manner.

I know what he said clearly I got no problem. That's the truth though I'm surprised that he was reading guides and watching YT videos to know more, that's the good thing. But that's not enough there's still more if he wants to know and a lot to experience. Like Tim said 100 games is not that much.
"The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by F.E.A.R.0 » November 22, 2014 5:04pm | Report
Timminatorr wrote:
just remember to not play ranked yet, you will only end up in a low MMR and regret it later. believe me a lot of us have. :P

There's a hidden MMR in un-ranked match making. It calculates both unranked and ranked MMR when you complete all 10 solo ranked games. Valve won't let you climb on 5K when fulfilling the 10 ranked matches.
"The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Dimonychan » November 22, 2014 11:16pm | Report
Let us see your Dotabuff first, I once had the same situation as you, but the thing is, my only advantage was bigger knowledge base. That's all. **** decisions and item choices remained. However, if you ae really far better than your opponent, pick carry/mid that works for you and for this bracket, and stomp just because you are better at everything from micromoments(baiting for tower dive with fully charged stick anyone?) to global decisions.

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