I feel so accomplished!

This^

I'm going to assume you guys are kidding, yasha is incredible early game viper as you already have damage utility items will give you more damage than anything else, I agree that viper is all about surviving. as for aghs its more something that I personally don't like, whenever someone on the other team goes for one we own them because they don't have the damage output, maybe it just doesn't suit my play style.

I'm so not backing down on manta, its great on viper

No one is joking...just look at the TI4 builds on viper. Almost every game is a Mek into Agh's and I think I only saw one manta and that was on a 6 slotted viper. If your team is lacking in damage output, yea I'd probably go for a Manta or an MKB early(most likely the MKB). But that shouldn't be the issue if you are going mid. You provide more than enough damage with your abilities early and mid game to be an impact. Your whole goal is to provide ganks and space for your team early/mid-game to secure the win. Even if you go Manta for your first big item most people probably wont be finishing it early enough before his damage falls off around the 30 minute point.

Also my question is...when do you build a manta? Picking up a manta as your first big ticket items is regarded as a poor choice on almost every hero since the illusions only put out 28% damage and take in 300% on ranged heroes. Typically for manta illusions to be effective you need at least one or two big ticket items and some levels. So either way going Mek to Agh's would be kind of necessary before you build the manta anyways.

Again I'm not saying manta is a no-no item but it's something I pick up after Mek, Agh's, and Heart or MKB. If the game is still going than I would consider a manta since my illusions benefit so much from my other items.

I never said pick it up first....yasha is a good item to pick up first/second and the other item to get would probably be mech manta is something you would get later yes. Its like tiny though, I pick up treads+yasha first then get aghs then finish manta then into AC or whatever.

Generally manta would come after mech, aghs or some other item needed, after that I would probably get a Reaver then get manta as it benefits for that stats and everything.

I'm certainly not saying manta is a good first item and I really don't know how you figured that. But I would get it before a heart and in some cases before the reaver.

The thing is that he hardly benefits from yasha if you play him like he is supposed to be played. As a tanky frontline 5 man hero. Yasha is mostly a transitional farming item.

You probably prefer it becouse you use viper as a pubstomp carry and not as an hero tha enables esrly game pushing.

Either that, or he's playing against n00bs and decided to go Rat Viper. It's surprisingly satisfying to Rat with a Hero that has no Rat potential 8{3

http://dotabuff.com/matches/785474577

RAT Sniper OP...I made the Skywrath Mage cry so hard! 8{D

Ok... What is your objective with Manta on Viper? Most TI4 people play him to tank (Anyone remember that game where Viper ate the entire team's ultis including Chrono and didn't die?). Manta isn't exactly a tanky item. People I see go Mek>>Agh's>>Heart

There were definitely SOME Manta pick ups on Viper during TI4 but it wasn't a prominent item on him. Like everyone else has said, he is best suited for being a tanky ranged hero with a long initiation ult that can cripple right-click heavy carries. The Manta doesn't really play into that well.

Also I don't understand the point of just picking up a Reaver and not building it into something before going Manta. It's the most expensive portion of your Heart anyways.

The reason I said something about grabbing Manta first is because you said you don't like Mek because of his mana pool, and you said you didn't see the point in Agh's. So I was curious what you would build before the Manta if you built anything at all.

I....give up on you people

Yes viper is a frontline hero who should be built to tank and draw out fights...I know

why do people hate me so much these days

we <3 you :-)

but we wanted to know how and why you build what you do :-)