Good player? Bad Player?

In my days as a gamer, there have been many instances of the epic struggle between what is deemed the good player and the bad player. Spread across many genres. I would like to Discuss mine and others thoughts on this inadvertent issue.

So lets talk about some instances that are bad player behaviors.

1)arrogance: This is a quality or definition of a player that can be a discriminating and controversial behavior. This quality combined with #2 misjudgement can create a monster.

2)Misjudgement: This quality or definition of a player is not always bad and is common in new players. It becomes an issue when you are a veteran player who consistently makes bad judgement calls, a scenario will be provided below.

3)Misconduct: This is probably the most common behavior in gaming today. Whether it is being obnoxious, being a troll, flaming, harassing, intentional bad play, irrational behavior, mocking, and overall poor sportsmanlike conduct. We are all guilty of this behavior, and it doesn't make us bad people, just a bad player for that game. Repeated offenses then can warrant the permanent bad player or troll titles.

I am sure there are more behaviors and feel free to post on what you think. Now to the scenario that I need opinions on.

Player A has invoker, all game he has been farming bottom, the opponents team has a fair amount of cc and have capitalized by pushing towers down early. Teammates start asking player A if he could please start participating in defending. Player A's response is Not my fault you are nubs and feed the team.... Game progresses more and invoker gets a few kills, we will say he is 5-0 at this point, the rest of the team is around 1-5 2-5 and have been losing team fights that they have been defending at inner tower and top base tower. Finaly someone makes the mocking call and types in all chat, "Pro Invoker FTL" the invoker responds by calling everyone on his team nubs and that they should have not died. Good Player or Bad player?

I have a few more scenarios but would like to hear some opinions.

The Invoker would be a bad player in this scenario, but you can't blame him, unless he is trolling. The Invoker player could just be a bad player (or beginner) in general, and talked back to the team because he was frustrated. The player who said "Pro Invoker FTL" would also be consider a bad player for misconduct.

It annoys me when people don't play the role that they should and don't participate when its absolutely imperative that they do. I feel like in that scenario, its just the Invoker's fault. He isn't someone who is meant to be farming all game and depending on his build, he can get kills quite easily and help the team. Maybe the other player's faults too if they made bad decisions but that happens in games. The other person saying the "Pro Invoker FTL" isn't really a bad player for misconduct because its really the Invoker's fault for driving him that far. I have a hard time dealing with players that just blame the team for something they could have easily stopped and if one guy is a complete ********, you can't blame others for venting anger. Lets be honest, DoTA and HoN and LoL are all games that can be quite aggravating to play in some cases. This is a team game and I really believe that people should play it like one. =)

Well, I really don't mind, if I play with beginners or "noobs", I mean... no one started Dota 2 as a "pro player".
What's really bugging me are all those players, who do not play well, but keep flaming and blaming everyone else but themselves for a loss.
And for me these are the real "bad players".
They play bad, have bad manner and they won't improve, if they are not willing to accept their mistakes and instead blame their team.

But still, I never get involved in this, I just ignore what they are writing and if they are inulting someone I simply report them.

I agree with this. The other day i played ward (something I'm not supposed to say) and had at least 2 wards placed the whole game. Sacrificed myself for the better of the team. Rubick btw. Stole some amazing ultys. I got chain frost and reverse polarity twice and used it on the other team, too bad i had no backup. Ah magnus ult run away! I also was dewarding towards the mid game. My k/d was pretty much on par with the semi carry and three people blamed me for the loss.Keep in mind my kills came from stolen ultys. Not really ksing.erghh!

The invoker situation. Seriously, this hero has the most teamfight potential of any hero in the game and he wasn't teamfighting. hmmm? let me think that one over. Bad invoker. But, he needed to be called out earlier. I really dislike these hard carry right click you to death mentality invoker players. They get out carried and then they still blame you.(although i would have kept the ftl to myself sometimes it needs to be said.)

there are some variables to be taken into account before calling out anyone anything...

first: how early in the game is this ? with little to no levels invoker's contribution to a teamfight is minimal so him being there or not wouldn't make that much of a difference so maybe he's just sitting on his lane to gain those extra levels so he can actually have an impact once he comes

second: is his team is made out of 4 supports ? (I keep hearing ppl *****ing about 5-man carry teams, well I had those but I also had 5-man support teams and they are both close to horrible), that means that basically none of them have the potential to actually kill in those teamfights (think about it this way, sand king needs his ult & stun to be close to killing anything, most supports lack actual dmg while ppl like gondar, riki, even balanar, are built for killing), so perhaps invoker is trying to build a bit of right click dmg (exort + one dmg item) so once again, if he comes to the teamfight he'll have the potential to finish heroes (esp key heroes from the enemy team that have been raping them all this time)

third: all the lanes were lost except his lane, and the enemies you say, are full pushers, generally when you lose one lane you leave it to go help the other lane that's being lost and hope to make an advantage but in this match sounds like everything went to hell so I wouldn't blame him if he was pissed off (I was on both ends, playing like **** and doing well while others playing like ****)

needs more context imo

To expand the scenario, and rephrase a tad. This game takes place around 12-15 minutes in, after the opponents have their ults. Invokers team is a well balanced team, and he is not the only carry. I guess to make it more detailed we will say they have, Drow ranger, Pudge, Dazzle, Treant, Invoker. And the opponents have Tides, enigma, Axe, Razor, And warlock.

Also, to broaden my purpose of the scenario, it is not limited to just the invoker hero, I used invoker as more of cliche of a character who has the skill set to help the team but chose not to. The point is that the opponents team has realized that they have the early game advantage and since they have realized that the invoker is not helping they have pushed towers down, and the next phase of this game is that the 4 team members besides invoker are now broke, under leveled and in bad morale. The invoker or whatever carry there was can't and will never carry this game because it is now too late and over.

i'd say a bad mixup of heroes on the invoker's side.
drow is the only dps. there's not much to combo with treant's ulti, worse now that it has no damage. pudge's hold isn't very useful in teamfights, he could tank though.
But the problem is, the enemy's tide warlock enigma and razor. axe is tanky andwill not be afraid to dive knowing there's a tide and a warlock behind him to ulti if the enemy would engage. razor would be thier dps along with the golem/s. tide also has gush and his aoe damage.
and they still have enigma.

Yes, it is a bad situation, which can bring up even more scenarios, but bequest that the team composition favors the opponents is only a hypothetical situation, the style of the heroes, in which any one can be used. The point being that the PLAYER playing invoker was bad, the situation was imperative to warrant cooperative teamwork to try to overcome the odds. And to point out that the invokers team stood a slim chance during 4v5's(and the opponents ability to dive I am glad you noticed that subliminal lineup.)

Let us digress from this situation, I am sure we can all agree the outcome was ill. On to the next.

It is late game, Overall it has been played within tight quarters of the enemy, scores are even and the teams are very balanced. I guess to make it easier I will propagate a team lineup, hmm, Radiant: Tides, Shadow Shaman, Spectre, Phantom Lancer, Sven vs Dire: Phantom Assasin, Chaos Knight, Magnatuar, Enigma, Silencer.

For purposes I will say the spectre has gone rather tanky and the sven has built semi/carry. All others stay standard suggested builds. Now back to the game... All outer and inner towers are pushed for both teams, with middle rax gone on radiant and bottom rax gone on dire. An aegis of the immortal is on the Spectre. The dire have relied on wards heavily and the radiant have been out of position to set up effective counterwarding, so they are playing more defensive now. The magnataur is pushing a creep wave at mid alone, possibly setting up a trap. The spectre a few leagues ahead of the team initiates on the mag, the rest of the dire appear out of the woods to aid, no ults wasted yet. Spectre uses ult to confuse and the rest of the radiant show up to fight. It is getting rather hectic and the radiant is silenced enduring a beating, the tides gets off his Ultimate after and the Shadow shaman gets some wards down. The phantom lancer begins focus on the enigma, Nigma has a bkb and pops and ults, a second later nigma falls to SS wards, they now focus the silencer, Chaos knight ults and is focusing their sven down, magnatuar ults and kills the shadow shaman, Sven takes out Ck images and the silencer dies to Phantom lancer. At this point in the fight the dire and the radiant are all at about 1/3 hp besides the sven who is full due to leach satanic bkb. The phantom assasin finishes off tides and crits the phantom lancer for almost a 1 shot kill and the lancer dies to ck stun. Pa is back to full hp due to leach and is battling sven and tides, ck comes over and kills tides, its Just sven, his Strength runs out and he falls. The dire silencer bought back and the 3 have succesfully destroyed bottom rax and top rax thus enabling megas. Oh I might add mag got away with minimal hp.

Notice someone is missing from all this action. The spectre after ult had daggered and ran away with half hp and an aegis and proceeded to not return to the fight. The tides is infuriated and blames the apparent loss on spectre, spectre says "lol, Why did you guys fight we couldn't win that. You guys are dumb thanks GG." ..... The spectre had Aegis btw.

I know this similar situation has happened to everyone. Good Player or Bad player?

does spec have radiance/damage? because if he had very little damage, aegis probably shouldn't have gone to him. in the first place. and being tanky and having aegis w/o damage is a bad idea. should've gone to either sven or PL.

so if he had no damage, he couldn't have done much, since he wouldn't be targeted first anyways. though if he had radiance/blade mail. he should get in the middle of the fight to deal damage and absorb damage of the cleaves from pa and/or magnus/ck.


though i'm wondering what happened within the 5(?) second silence period. both ck and pa had blinks(ck sort of) and enigma probably has too.
unless the others aside from spectre are hidden by the fog. which would mean, spectre was gone even before it started since you said he blinked away after he ultis. since you also said the other radiant are leagues away. there is no one to tank for.
in this case, his best action was to run behind the magnataur and behind the dire team. so all focus would go to him and the dire's back is shown to the radiant.
when the rest of the radiant catches up, they would still be beating the tanky spectre or waiting to revive because he just died, 3 seconds is still good time.
the will be caught unawares. radiant would focus on whoever is the closest 2 or 3. tide should cast ravage before being seen though or at least before silencer notices. when tide stuns, spec should've revived and uses ulti, shadow shaman too.