Help Support Our Growing Community

DOTAFire is a community that lives to help every Dota 2 player take their game to the next level by having open access to all our tools and resources. Please consider supporting us by whitelisting us in your ad blocker!

Want to support DOTAFire with an ad-free experience? You can support us ad-free for less than $1 a month!

Go Ad-Free
Smitefire logo

Join the leading DOTA 2 community.
Create and share Hero Guides and Builds.

Create an MFN Account






Or

Great Scott! Ive Found It! The Anti-Meta!

Please review our General Rules & Guidelines before posting or commenting anywhere on DOTAFire.

Forum » General Discussion » Great Scott! Ive Found It! The Anti-Meta! 13 posts - page 1 of 2
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Blubbles » April 12, 2015 6:49pm | Report
Spirit Breaker.

Ok let's think about this. Who are the top 5 new meta "OP" heroes?

They all are not effective against Spirit Breaker.

Are they attacking you? Charge.
Are they chasing you? Charge.
Are they slowing you? Charge
Are they using Pounce? Charge.
You see a fed enemy carry coming your way? Charge.

Most SB players I've seen use their Charge almost completely offensively. But what if we use it defensively. Using the build I got here...

AC MoM Arcanes Mek SnY Urn

I could be everywhere, every twelve seconds. They couldn't keep up with my mobility, and when they did catch up, all I had to do was Charge away. I pushed every lane very fast, just by using my MoM to attack the creeps and using my speed booster to help them push farther into enemy territory. In a sense, a right click based Tinker. Only much much much harder to kill thanks to built in health.

Thoughts on how you think this plays out?

P.S I was playing support SB.
Mood of the Day


O_O

Blubbles


Notable (13)
Posts: 933
Steam: Axolotl
View My Blog
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Hamstertamer » April 12, 2015 10:13pm | Report
Ummm...how is SB good againt Troll Warlord, Slark, Storm Spirit or Juggernaut? I really don't get it.

Being able to charge out from a hero doesn't make a counter you know :)

To counter a hero you need to shut him down and kill him without him being able to kill you. SB wrecks Sniper because he can hunt him down and kill him as many times as he wants during the early game. But Troll can manfight SB and win. Slark can manfight SB and win. Storm can kite SB indefinitely and win. Jugg can ult SB and Omni will still go on even if SB charges out.

I'm still really meh about SB. He's incredibly strong in the first 20 minutes of the game, where his burst damage is at his strongest and the enemy team is split up...but I really don't see what he does past 20-25 minutes. He's a really bad carry, his utility is very limited, his teamfight presence is reduced to the abysmal AOE stun he gets from Aghs, only thing he can do is jump on a guy and try to chainstun him, and he can't solo kill unless ridiculously ahead.
Strategy guide : Anti-pubstomper guide.
Hero guides : Spectre , Windranger and Clinkz
== Broodmother guide out! ==

Hamstertamer
<Editor>

Awards Showcase
Show more awards

Memorable (89)
Posts: 2620
View My Blog
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Fedorable » April 12, 2015 11:14pm | Report
Wouldn't Invoker be the quintessential anti-meta hero? He's got a disarm to deal with right-clickers like Troll Warlord, Juggernaut and Sniper in Deafening Blast (I believe Slark cannot get rid of the disarm via Dark Pact). He can juke Jugg's ulti with Ghost Walk and he can use the slow to kite Troll and the invisibility to close the gap on Sniper. I mean, the dude's got about 10 spells, he should be able to hold his own against them.

The thing I don't know is this; how does Invoker match up against Storm Spirit?

And another thing; are there any really good Invoker players on the pro scene right now?

Fedorable
<Editor>

Awards Showcase
Show more awards

Remarkable (23)
Posts: 894
Steam: Fedorable
View My Blog
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by R-Conqueror » April 12, 2015 11:17pm | Report
I actually really like the idea of a split pushing Spirit Breaker, I just don't think that qualifies him as Anti-meta. Being able to run away from something is not comparable to being able to face it and win.

But, I might try that split push mentality if I ever decide to play SB ever again.
I got to Notable, Thanks!
Check out my carrying guide: http://www.dotafire.com/dota-2/guide/alchemist-shrugged-a-carrying-guide-8022

R-Conqueror


Remarkable (24)
Posts: 503
Steam: R-Conqueror
View My Blog
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Timminatorr » April 13, 2015 11:17am | Report
Personally i dont think there is clear meta right now, but instead strong heroes directing the way teams play.

Before we had a way of playing deciding what heroes teams picked. Just pre TI4 teams discovered that a heavy deathball strat backed up by strong teamfight teamfight was a very powerfull strategy, and in TI4 newbie saw that it was the best one at the time.
So teams pick heroes that fit the deathball strat like DP, razor and viper. Razor was an extremely popular pick, but the hero itself wasnt imba or something, he was just a safe and stable pick in the deathball.

6.79 early push strategies became strong again, so strong pushers like DK, chen, pugna, alchemist, luna and invoker were popular. Along with roaming becoming stronger so all in early active/lane winning supports like CM and lich were picked.

TI3 had a very set in stone way people played and had both heroes that pit in that playstyle and strong picks at the time.


Right now the popular heroes controll the 'meta', as opposed to the other way around.
Certain still strong heroes like puck and tide arent picked up that often anymore because current popular heroes are good against them bacause they are tanky or very high tempo so they can punish crucial high cooldown spells.


So TL;DR: In this patch heroes dictate the way teams play as opposed to the other way around, and there is no strongest way to play (discovered)

Timminatorr
<Editor>

Awards Showcase
Show more awards

Memorable (57)
Posts: 2376
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Hamstertamer » April 13, 2015 11:40am | Report
Timminatorr wrote:

So TL;DR: In this patch heroes dictate the way teams play as opposed to the other way around, and there is no strongest way to play (discovered)


Wasn't it always like this? Isn't the poor balancing of the game and the brokenness of certain specific heroes what dictates the meta? Remember the Tinker/Void patch? Now it's the Troll/Storm patch xD
Strategy guide : Anti-pubstomper guide.
Hero guides : Spectre , Windranger and Clinkz
== Broodmother guide out! ==

Hamstertamer
<Editor>

Awards Showcase
Show more awards

Memorable (89)
Posts: 2620
View My Blog
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Timminatorr » April 13, 2015 12:51pm | Report
Hamstertamer wrote:



Wasn't it always like this? Isn't the poor balancing of the game and the brokenness of certain specific heroes what dictates the meta? Remember the Tinker/Void patch? Now it's the Troll/Storm patch xD

6.80 was also kind of like this patch, no clear meta and polular heroes mostly dictated the way of playing.

So like i said, this patch has no clear meta, just strong heroes who steer the teams playstyle in a certain way.
Even in 6.81 deathball patch tinker wasnt the defining hero that steered the playstyle of the teams. Deathball decided what heroes were picked.

And imo its not the troll/storm patch, its the troll>>sniper>>SF>ES/lion/venge/jugger/chen>storm/tree/io
Patch =D

Timminatorr
<Editor>

Awards Showcase
Show more awards

Memorable (57)
Posts: 2376
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by KEEP CALM AND FEED » April 13, 2015 4:00pm | Report
I call this thr manfight meta.
The 1v1 meta or the 2v1 meta.
Why?
Because illusions are weak. Those heroes tjat are centered around team fights like spectre. Or medusa arent that strong(spectre even got nerfed).
What remains are the crop of manfight heroes that are SCALABLE.
Any hero that has the capacity to have some early game impact while having late game capacity if fed is relevant(unless they are illusion based).

In short troll, axe, juggernaut, ursa in pubs, chaos knights(he is a single target manfight ya know), phantom assassin in some builds. To Some extent pl and then sven.
My example For 2v1 is sniper and bristleback. You sit right there while i tank for you amd you kill them haha they can't reach you so they have to suck it.
How do you like my analysis?

KEEP CALM AND FEED

Awards Showcase
Show more awards

Notable (15)
Posts: 857
Steam: KEEP CALM AND FEED
View My Blog
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by FleetAU » April 16, 2015 8:47am | Report
winter wyvren counters meta.

Invoker doesn't because you just bkb dust and kill him then move on and he can't man-fight with right click build against troll for example
Do as I say, not what I do

FleetAU


Notable (16)
Posts: 466
Steam: Fleet™
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by DonnyDonnowitz » April 16, 2015 5:41pm | Report
Blubbles wrote:

Spirit Breaker.

Ok let's think about this. Who are the top 5 new meta "OP" heroes?

They all are not effective against Spirit Breaker.

Are they attacking you? Charge.
Are they chasing you? Charge.
Are they slowing you? Charge
Are they using Pounce? Charge.
You see a fed enemy carry coming your way? Charge.

Most SB players I've seen use their Charge almost completely offensively. But what if we use it defensively. Using the build I got here...

AC MoM Arcanes Mek SnY Urn

I could be everywhere, every twelve seconds. They couldn't keep up with my mobility, and when they did catch up, all I had to do was Charge away. I pushed every lane very fast, just by using my MoM to attack the creeps and using my speed booster to help them push farther into enemy territory. In a sense, a right click based Tinker. Only much much much harder to kill thanks to built in health.

Thoughts on how you think this plays out?

P.S I was playing support SB.



Id have to strongly disagree. You may have gotten away with this at the normal skill bracket but anything above and you would get shutdown by silences, stun, etc.. People would predict your movements and prepare to gank you. Also as a supprot SB it would be unlikely that you would get away with that kind of farm later in the game in most cases and that build is rich. He is atrocious in lane so playing him as a 1 role is out of the question as well. Also I don't think charge breaks Jugg's ult.

In that game you linked you played against a team consisting of 4 cores and a very very squishy support. While they picked strong heroes in the current meta having 3 of them doesn't mean they had a better team. You can do some decent split-pushing with SB but if thats your goal there are better suited heroes IMO.

DonnyDonnowitz


Notable (3)
Posts: 46

Quick Reply

Please log in or sign up to post!

DOTAFire is the place to find the perfect build guide to take your game to the next level. Learn how to play a new hero, or fine tune your favorite DotA hero’s build and strategy.

Copyright © 2019 DOTAFire | All Rights Reserved