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Unconfirmed for both, given that it's at 12:30 AM for me...

I can captain, if you want. Credentials: http://www.dotabuff.com/players/154548568/matches?date=&hero=&skill_bracket=&lobby_type=&game_mode=captains_mode&region=&faction=&duration=&enjoyment=any

Those most recent 4 are the ones I've captained :D

In my experience, a 4k Storm Spirit can easily get shut down by a 2k Silencer. Storm Spirit isn't broken, he just Snowballs incredibly well. Shut him down early, or control him in fights and he has a hard time.

Juggernaut can be made to suffer with good Silences, so QoP, Skywrath Mage, Nightstalker, etc. can deal with him themselves. You can also lock him down with Bane or Beastmaster. Omnislash is rendered useless by several Items and Abilities.

Slark suffers from the same problem, lock him down with...how shall I put this? "persistant" Lock Down like Chronoshpere, Ice Path, Astral Imprisonment, etc.

As for Axe...I'll think about it.

This is pretty much why this was requested by Team Salt (excluding Wulfstan). I have to agree, it makes the 1st Pick/Ban Phase particularly boring.

If you want the raw hard facts, Troll Warlord and Sniper are so good in this patch. that they are picked/banned constantly, even in competetive.

http://www.datdota.com/stats.php?p=draft&team1=&team2=&team_side1=0&hero=&player=&side=0&patch=11&season=0&event=410&team=&prize=0&region=0&day_after=&month_after=&year_after=&day_before=&month_before=&year_before=

90% of all games in the EU Qualifiers of Starwhateverit'scallednow XII saw either a Troll Warlord or Sniper Pick/Ban.

You could argue that so did Batrider and Io, but I'm leaving those Heroes in since we rarely see them in the inhouse and nobody is going to pick them unless it's a signature pick (Timm is the only person I can think of who can play Batrider well, I've heard tht a friend of a friend can Io quite well and that's it...). Troll and Snipper are Heroes that anyone can pick up play and win with quite easily. Since they're most likely going to be banned in the 1st Wave anyway to keep the Drafts interesting (beleive me, almost any captain at the inhouse will ban them anyway) we may as well take them out of the Hero Pool completely.

you really haven't seen me Io.lol.

Storm Spirit is the ultimate snowballer in every sense of the phrase. A hero that can get kills early, farm the jungle early and still say super duper relevant in the late - game is something which is only equalled by enigma and maybe ember spirit (the dude farms so fast ;_;)

i think its fine to ban just troll and snipper beforehand because it makes the first bans really predicable, but it should stay with those 2. if we go any further we might as well go full crazy mode.

also, unconfirmed both days.

Storm Spirit also isn't so easy to shut down - He can have a dreadful early game, but one series of good plays and he can be caught up and ahead again. Example - Sumail at the DAC finals, being like 0-4-0 at 10 minutes, and catching up to 5-4-0, and suddenly be balling out control 5 minutes later. (I know he's a pro, but the logic remains; Storm Spirit does crazy amounts of stuff with just Power Treads and Soul Ring).

And I know that Sniper and Troll Warlord are incredibly strong competitive picks, and just strong in general this patch, but I still disagree with the idea of removing them because 'they make first pick/ban boring'. I don't think you can really use fun as a form of objective argument for this, since it's not (If you want to use it, construct a poll and draw the evidence from that). It's the principle I disagree with more than anything else. I'm still willing to play, I'd just rather see the community asked openly about these changes than the decisions seemingly made for us.

Perhaps this could be an opportunity to experiment with my black list idea?

perhaps make a poll to see what the people want?

Unconfirmed on both days.

I'd suggest coming to terms with the rules set by Xyrus, however arbitrary you might find them. We'll end up with 10 supports if everyone gets to ban out his personal nightmare hero.

I think you're assuming I'm only removing them for one reason.

1) If the same people as usual are Captain's, these 2 are going to get Banned anyway. If one side doesn't Ban them, the other most likely will. Most of the Captain's are 4k Ranked and are sick of seeing certain Heroes (including Storm, Axe, Lion, etc.). I'm fine with them personally, but I may as well make this more fun for the Captain's and I don't feel anyone is going to miss Troll and Snipper at the inhouse.

2) They are the most contested and easiest Heroes to play in this Meta, you can fit them into any lineup and they will do well even if you Gank them repeatedly (similar to your Storm argument, there's actually a fair few Heroes that can do this, but Bat and Io are not 2 of them)

3) The last inhouse had "banned" Heroes, granted this was due to it being a different type of game, but it shows that we can agree on which Heroes should and should not be in the pool.

There are 114 Heroes in DOTA, 112 in DOTA 2, and 109 in Captain's Mode. I'm still leaving 107 Heroes to choose from.

You can do if you want, but you'll need a seperate thread. If someone wants a certain Hero(es) in or out of the Pool, feel free to request it. I'm still considering Hamster's suggestion to remove Axe, since I got as far as Io and figured..."meh, I already removed 2 Heroes, that's enough for now", but Axe, Shadow Fiend snd Storm Spirit are next in line on the list of possible Bans.

Wow there are so many people joining up nowadays :o

I would like to say confirmed but I honestly don't know what I am doing like a week in advance so just put me as unconfirmed.