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Tidehunter, tank n' gank v0.5

November 21, 2011 by godofrawr
Comments: 17    |    Views: 5641    |   

Build 1

Build 1: tank n' gank

DotA2 Hero: Tidehunter

Offense

Damage 47-53

Defense

Armor 3.1

Other

Movement Speed 310

Attributes

Strength 97
Agility 52.5
Intelligence 58.5

Basic Stats

Health 2316
Mana 988

Purchase Order

Starting Items

Core

Situational

Non-core suggested items

Starting Items Option 2



Hero Skills

Gush

1 8 10 12

Kraken Shell

2 3 5 7

Anchor Smash

4 9 13 14

Ravage

6 11 16

Stats

15 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

Version Summary

v0.1
Initial Layout, and a quick test skill sequence completed.

v0.2
Skill sequence with explanation included. Also started filling out basic Character info and Strats.

v0.3
Introduction put in, and guide published.

v0.4
First wave of item changes, still in testing though.

v0.5
Skill order re-explained, and unchanged.

In the future;

Expansion of item builds, including situational items
Jungling (and why you shouldn't really do it)
More general strats

Personal Introduction

This is my first guide, for any game.
First of all, I'm not pro, and I don't claim to be. This is a guide based on my limited beta experience with Tidehunter. As is quite obvious, this is a very early version of the guide. I will expand sections as I have more information to put in. Any feedback is welcomed, and I will test to see if it fits the core concept of this guide (i.e. don't suggest pure damage carry items for a tank build, etc). Also as is typical on the internet, I fully expect to be mocked and called a noob, so please feel free to do so, I will ignore you as you rightly deserve.

Although my experience with Dota 2 is limited, I do have a significant amount of experience in LoL, as well as a fair bit of HoN experience.

Character Intro & Basic Strat

Tidehunter is one of the better tank/support heroes. He is very good at initiation team fights, when he can blink in. He also has a passive ability that makes him "tank"-ier than most heroes.
He also carries around a giant dead fish.

As with any tank, you should allow your lane mate (hopefully a carry) to get the majority of the last hits. Your core build is not incredible expensive (~4650g). You will ideally serve as a wall between laning opponents, and the carry for most of the early stages of the game. Due to mana restrictions, try to save your Gush for when there is a "good" gank opportunity, or to allow your carry to create space between themselves and an aggressive attacker.

By mid game you should be able to Roam and create ganks with Gush (for single targets) or Ravage (for multiple targets). During later game team fights, the basic attack pattern will be Blink in, Ravage, Anchor Smash, then Gush the priority target to prevent escaping.

Pros / Cons

Pros

    One of the best team fight Ultimates in the game
    Kraken Shell makes him very tanky
    Gush is a good slow

Cons
    Team fight utility is limited to his Ultimate
    Mana starved early game, if you are using his spells at all
    Damage output is kind of "meh" when geared as designed

Skilling Order

Take 1 point in Gush at level one, then;

Top Priority - Ravage
Then Kraken Shell
Then Gush
Then Anchor Smash

First 4 levels should look like this;

Q,W,W,E

The Reasoning;

UPDATED;

As stated originally I still believe that Kraken Shell should be levelled first for survivability. Gush should always be the 1st point you put in for the 40% slow. 1 point should go into Anchor Smash relatively early, for the debuff in early ganks and team fights.
From there it will depend on what you roll you are filling on the team, and how the match is going. Gush is a better single target ability, and the armor debuff helps. Anchor Smash is good damage dealer, with a short cool down. This would mean, that if your team is entering team fights relatively early, or is short on damage, you may want to level this over Gush.

Itemization

UPDATED

After some testing, I've altered the core. The core build for TH should be just the Power Treds and Blink Dagger, keeping in mind that you should be buying wards, assuming you are actually working on ganking.

Vanguard is situational, as it really is only good mid game, and against melee or auto-attack heavy teams. Hood is a good, relatively cheap item to combat magic damage heavy teams. At this point, it is probably not the best option for TH as it doesn't really complement him very much, but its worth mentioning.
I feel that Assault Cuirass complements THs playstyle, and the armor debuff from Gush. Given that your Ult will put you in the middle of the fight in most cases, you should be able to get the debuff on most of the opposing team, at least for long enough for the damage to be done.

After further testing I don't feel like the Bracers are as "core" as the Blink Dagger and the Power Treds. They are still very good, cheap items for him, but Treds and the Dagger should be the primary focus.
Heart is a good late game item, as TH typically he has a large HP pool. Still an "in testing" item

Guide Discussion
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Quote | PM | +Rep by dirrwen » November 21, 2011 4:38pm | Report
Tide isn't a tank. That's a League of Laughs term. and he doesnt get enough gold to get item that allow him to "tank" in any serious game.

dirrwen


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Quote | PM | +Rep by PotatisFarfar » November 21, 2011 4:40pm | Report
Scout em and round em...

PotatisFarfar
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Quote | PM | +Rep by Atlas » November 21, 2011 4:45pm | Report
Tank was used in DotA long before LoL. For instance, many heroes that offer enough to a team without high damage builds (CC or utility, usually) can make great tanks. Tiny, for example, makes a great tank. Tidehunter, though? More of a tanky dps. I'd never go pure tank.

Atlas
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Quote | PM | +Rep by PotatisFarfar » November 21, 2011 4:47pm | Report
No role that is named "Tank" in dota. I will maybe go so far to say that it can be a sub role to the bigger role: Inniator

PotatisFarfar
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Quote | PM | +Rep by ixFusion » November 21, 2011 4:53pm | Report
Since when was tank a LoL term?

Very informative guide. From what I've seen so far for Tidehunter guides I've yet to see a good late item build. Going Vanguard is not smart because most of the time (late game 18-25) heroes are criting in the 400-1500 range. So the 70% chance to block the 40 Damage Melee and 20 Range is not a smart move. For example Axe isn't as effective late game as he is early/mid because he's basically useless when heroes start criting because 1 crit = 1 spin. Going items early that can help you late seems to be the best thing to do. Assault Cuircass is a great choice because that extra attack speed + armor is very useful late game, adding a heart and refresher orb isn't too bad ether.


+1 Anyway.

ixFusion


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Quote | PM | +Rep by Atlas » November 21, 2011 4:58pm | Report
There is a reason Naix is called an anti-tank. Because there are Tanks. An initiator is a sub-role if anything. If their only purpose is to cc one person and start the fight they are not doing much for the team. If they are initiating, peeling enemies off carries, offering utility, supporting the team with wards and auras on top of soaking most of the damage in a teamfight, now THAT is a role. That role is called tank.

List of tanks: Tiny, Centaur, Axe, Slardar, Tide, numerous others.

Atlas
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Quote | PM | +Rep by ixFusion » November 21, 2011 5:02pm | Report
Atlas wrote:

There is a reason Naix is called an anti-tank. Because there are Tanks. An initiator is a sub-role if anything. If their only purpose is to cc one person and start the fight they are not doing much for the team. If they are initiating, peeling enemies off carries, offering utility, supporting the team with wards and auras on top of soaking most of the damage in a teamfight, now THAT is a role. That role is called tank.

List of tanks: Tiny, Centaur, Axe, Slardar, Tide, numerous others.



+1

Also I don't know if you have Dota 2 yet, but most of the heroes have their listed roles and TH is listed as a tank.

ixFusion


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Quote | PM | +Rep by LuvLes » November 21, 2011 5:14pm | Report
Atlas wrote:

There is a reason Naix is called an anti-tank. Because there are Tanks. An initiator is a sub-role if anything. If their only purpose is to cc one person and start the fight they are not doing much for the team. If they are initiating, peeling enemies off carries, offering utility, supporting the team with wards and auras on top of soaking most of the damage in a teamfight, now THAT is a role. That role is called tank.

List of tanks: Tiny, Centaur, Axe, Slardar, Tide, numerous others.

Backwards, tank would be a sub-role and it was always referred to as Survivability. Initiators are in just about every game, though not as much in the highest level of game play because it really comes down to everyone pounding it out all at once without a seconds warning. Ward watching, ward hunting, ward smoking, find enemies, have a 3 second 5v5 and take half a lane.

Also, Gush would be more important than Kraken Shell. What you are really aiming for is the duration and having every extra armor reduction helps in the game. Enemies can go into the negative after all, that is why there are team compositions out there that focus on armor reduction and can really do some serious damage early into the late.

Anyways, -1 because you are still one of the stereotypes when it comes to Tidehunter for getting Vanguard.

Anyways, Tank did not originate from DOTA. I can absolutely guarantee it didn't, but that doesn't mean it originated from LOL either. It didn't come into constant use for this genre until LOL.

LuvLes
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Quote | PM | +Rep by Atlas » November 21, 2011 5:27pm | Report
Quoted:


Backwards, tank would be a sub-role and it was always referred to as Survivability. Initiators are in just about every game, though not as much in the highest level of game play because it really comes down to everyone pounding it out all at once without a seconds warning. Ward watching, ward hunting, ward smoking, find enemies, have a 3 second 5v5 and take half a lane.

Also, Gush would be more important than Kraken Shell. What you are really aiming for is the duration and having every extra armor reduction helps in the game. Enemies can go into the negative after all, that is why there are team compositions out there that focus on armor reduction and can really do some serious damage early into the late.

Anyways, -1 because you are still one of the stereotypes when it comes to Tidehunter for getting Vanguard.

Anyways, Tank did not originate from DOTA. I can absolutely guarantee it didn't, but that doesn't mean it originated from LOL either. It didn't come into constant use for this genre until LOL.


I've seen tank used for a while in dota. Whether it be named something else, the definition remains the same. Damage sponge, beefy, tank, it's all the same. And like I said, initiator is an important role, but it's nothing more than a sub-role. If all they have to offer to a team is the ability to start the fight, that's not much of a role. Initiators always have something else to offer to a team. Take Cryx, for example, he offers quite a large amount of damage after he initiates. Lion offers plenty of CC as well as a high damage ultimate. VS has something to displace an enemy, a debuff and a stun. They all have a greater notch to fit than just "initiator".

Also, I always get vanguard on Tide. It's really good for him if you are going with a tank/tanky build. That block is a lifesaver, really.

Atlas
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Quote | PM | +Rep by PotatisFarfar » November 21, 2011 5:46pm | Report
Tank oriented out from MMO's Like everquest and world of warcraft btw.

btw, thing is with tide, you are bassicly a walking ultimate late game, your sole purpose is to land that ultimate, and vanaguard is kinda a waste there...

PotatisFarfar
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