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10 Votes

Crystal Clear; Semi-Carry & Support Guide

February 16, 2014 by MetalMario77
Comments: 23    |    Views: 39075    |   


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MetalMario77 | October 23, 2013 11:50am
My last post indicated;

Freezing Field 30/20 Slow; Crystal Nova 30/20 Slow

But, since the new update Freezing Field now has an absolute advantage over Crystal Nova.

FF 50/30
CN 30/20
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MetalMario77 | October 19, 2013 9:05pm
A lot of people underestimate the power of Freezing Field. Okay, let me try to explain this. Say you were to max out Crystal Nova before anything else instead of getting your Freezing Field. If you were to cast it 3 times at level 4 it would cost 480 Mana where as Freezing Field costs 200 Mana at level 1. So already you are at a disadvantage as far as Mana costs.

Casting Crystal Nova 3 times would deal out 750 Damage in a 400 Radius, not bad. But, Freezing Field at level 1 with someone as close to you as possible does 895 Damage (I tested this with an Axe who had 1195 HP). The second target who was much further away, but, still in the AOE was killed (Bane) who had 750 HP. So we know that a Level 1 Ult can do more damage than a level 4 Crystal Nova casted 3 times consecutively in a larger AOE.

Crystal Nova & Freezing Field have the same attack speed slow and movement speed slow.

Cooldown times; It would take you 45 seconds to deal 750 damage with just your Crystal Nova. What battle lasts 45 seconds? Your Freezing Field takes 7 seconds to deal more damage (much more reasonable).

Now, Freezing Field is going to be placed on that 150 second Cool Down time, so in that sense you will be at a disadvantage.

Conclusion;

Freezing Field 200 Mana; 3 Crystal Nova's (level 4) 480 Mana
Freezing Field 895 Damage; 3 Crystal Nova's (level 4) 750 Damage
FF AOE 685 AOE; CN 400 AOE
FF Cast Time 7 Seconds; CN Cast time to be almost as effective 45 seconds.
FF CD 150; CN 15 per cast
FF 30/20 Slow; CN 30/20 Slow

Also keep in mind that a Aghanim's Scepter increases damage and reduces cool down making it more viable than CN (Though will be unlikely you'll have it before level 6).

Alright, now lets get to game play. Every Dota game is different. I've been in games where team fights begin happening as early as level 4, though unlikely you never know how the game will go. Having your Freezing Field at level 6 can sometimes just be insurance. But, a lot of people make the mistake of not using her Ult enough. Say for a second Natures Prophet from the jungle Pudge from mid, & the 2 other heros in lane come in for a gank. That's 4 people from the enemy team and even if it were 2 or 3 if you can get your carry 2 kills or take away gold from their carries why wouldn't you use it? For fear there may be a "better time"? That's silly with all things considered.

Its great with ganking, great in teamfights, great in repelling ganks. A lot of people underestimate it, but, with good timing and positioning you alone can lead your team to victory (even if you end the game with 0-10-32).

Okay, now we get to the Aurora issue. I'm not sure if you noticed, but, today I added a skill build 2. This only puts 2 points in your Arcane Aura. You can read why you may want to put 2 points in it opposed to 4 by 7 in my 'Skill Build 2' section. As far as the Aurora maxed by 7, I generally will do this when I am spamming my spells to push lanes, jungle, harass the enemy exc. You don't want to get caught in a team fight with not enough Mana to use your ult. Crystal Maiden Doesn't have a large Mana pool at level 6, but, if you have that aurora maxed it will allow you to cast all of your spells as well as Ult. After your 7 second Ult Cast time you should have enough mana to follow up your Ult with another Frostbite (as your Crystal Nova may not be off CD yet).

All in all it really just depends on how the game is going, if your focusing on ganking Skill Build 2 should be sufficient to your needs. If your being the "Jack of all Trades" CM then you will want to make sure you don't run out of Mana as that's where the majority of your damage is coming from.

One thing you may note about both Skill Builds is the fact that I always put Frostbite as 1, and aura as 2 & 3. I find that if your harassing the enemy enough you run out of Mana after 2 or 3 casts. So what is the point of leveling something you won't be able to use? You may ask why not buy a clarity? Well, frankly you have a lot of items you need to get on very little gold. 50 Gold at the start is a lot considering for 3 more gold you could turn an Iron Branch into a Mek. That's 1 more last hit you can give your carry and less heartache for you. Why use gold on something you already have equipped? On top of that your going to have to leave the battle to use it, so its not like your going to be able to follow up your spells with more spells.

Unless your opponent is making really bad moves (or you have a centaur or Jug in your lane) it is unlikely your going to be able to get a kill off casting your abilities twice in a row, especially if your just babysitting. I think the best method is to harass the enemy to make them use all their salves & tangos which may push them out of lane. If they remain in lane and are still low, your ability to be able to cast another level 1 Frostbite may be enough to get the kill. (Similar concept to Kunkkas Tidebringer & then following it up with a torrent when the enemy has low HP)

Now the 3rd benefit of your Aura in this build is the fact that 2 levels in it can drastically improve all lanes. This will help your team secure more kills, push more towers which will only help you in the end.

I hope this explained everything, thanks for the great questions!
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Mirror (22) | October 19, 2013 11:09am
ouch, don't want to step into this argument.

A little question about your skill build though. Why do you get her R at six? I find early game CM's Q is much more mana efficient then the R. There should not be many team fights at lvl 6 and in small engagements CM's Q is very similar.

Also why do max E by 7? I personal go W-Q-E-E-W-Q-Q-Q-W-R-R. With 2 levels of E you can spam your Q and W reasonably well and still have powerful effects on your Q and W.
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MetalMario77 | October 19, 2013 10:59am
Vaeldiithia wrote:

The only problem with this argument is that you guys definetly play on different skill levels.

Your guide is viable in the noob-pool, that's true. Not anywhere above that. Why won't you play a lina or WR or venge or anything but CM if you want to ks after deciding your carry is bad? Why CM, really?

I'm bad with her so I checked out your guide but I feel it won't improve my gameplay, but good luck with that, maybe it works for you. If you enjoy, that's fine.


In fact, never have I ever thought about intentionally KS'n unless its my buddy who Force Staffs me into the enemy fountain. CM is a great hero who does huge amounts of damage. She is a well rounded hero and with the right items. If your carry sucks you can't risk the enemy getting away. Especially if your "Carry" is a dunce. If I decided that the carry can get the kill I would let him have it. If he isn't paying attention or we risk a Nyx ult or shadowblade, I'm going to try to eliminate the threat.
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MetalMario77 | October 19, 2013 10:55am
Shroom wrote:

So, I just want to write in, since I stopped reading your guide pretty early on. How many games do you play where the Hard carry goes mid lane?

"A Crystal Maiden mid, does not work well against hard carry hero's as they will make you their ***** if they are experienced. Unfortunately, I learned this the hard way when our only hard carry weaver chose not to go mid (and on top did not participate in 95% of the team fights leaving me to feed. -Yes, this is a slight rant."

That paragraph is enough to show this is a lower skill level guide, and it may work in those skill brackets, but the levels you put into aura early, and you should try to balance between nova and frostbite, since the hard disable is usually better than the area slow.


To name a few OD, Weaver, DK. All heros that have the ability to molest you in a 1v1. As far as the balance, it truly is situational. If your team has more than just your frostbite there is a ggood chance they will stun soon after your initial freeze. I find it better to do your initial slow/ nuke and not risk the chance of your frostbite killing them (though it does happen).
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Shroom | October 4, 2013 8:22am
So, I just want to write in, since I stopped reading your guide pretty early on. How many games do you play where the Hard carry goes mid lane?

"A Crystal Maiden mid, does not work well against hard carry hero's as they will make you their ***** if they are experienced. Unfortunately, I learned this the hard way when our only hard carry weaver chose not to go mid (and on top did not participate in 95% of the team fights leaving me to feed. -Yes, this is a slight rant."

That paragraph is enough to show this is a lower skill level guide, and it may work in those skill brackets, but the levels you put into aura early, and you should try to balance between nova and frostbite, since the hard disable is usually better than the area slow.
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Vaeldiithia | October 4, 2013 4:35am
The only problem with this argument is that you guys definetly play on different skill levels.

Your guide is viable in the noob-pool, that's true. Not anywhere above that. Why won't you play a lina or WR or venge or anything but CM if you want to ks after deciding your carry is bad? Why CM, really?

I'm bad with her so I checked out your guide but I feel it won't improve my gameplay, but good luck with that, maybe it works for you. If you enjoy, that's fine.
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Wisdomseyes1 (8) | October 3, 2013 3:57pm
I am no longer talking about your guide, but your statements in the comments, in which I have quoted and responded to directly.

You saying "I said in the guide X" doesn't mean that in the comments you suggested the exact opposite.

If you notice, my first comment simply pertained to your use of aura. That is in the guide and I disagreed with it. Any comments I have had since are simply what you have said in the comments.

Quoted:
Now, yes, generally you'd like your actually carries to get a farm. But, all too often you have teammates that play hero's they don't know how to play or they are just bad. Doesn't it suck when you know your probably going to lose because your team blows? Yes, it does. So this guide is showing you how you can solely carry a team under the right circumstances. Not, KS as you indicate.


Quoted:
Yes, CM is technically a "Support" ideally all you'd need to do is support. But, frankly that's not how it goes 50% of the time hence why most people have a 50% Win/Loss Ratio. Now, imagine for a second you did what was necessary to win the game, This includes tanking, baiting, carrying, supporting.


Tell me again how you didn't suggest in the comments that you should "carry" with crystal maiden, as opposed to trying to get your carries back into the game (which is all I have been saying for the past few comments now)


It seems that we are down to petty insults now, rather than actual points being made.
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MetalMario77 | October 3, 2013 8:56am
Wisdomseyes1 wrote:

I have never downvoted a guide before...


If you wanted to just say "this is how you play Carry CM" that would have been fine, but your guide is saying to take farm from "bad players" and that is why you have earned the privilege of being my first vote at all on this website.

"I didn't read anything you wrote" doesn't bode well for your point that Crystal Maiden is a semi-carry.

Tip when writing a guide: Assume every player is of equal skill, or assume that everyone on the enemy team is just straight up better than you as a player.


Again, your failure to read the guide astounds me. This has been in the guide since day 1;

This combination allows you to push lanes & effectively farm. Don't be the guy that takes away from the carries farm. Only do this if there isn't a carry to take the gold. Most likely you'll have instances in game where you can do what I've described without pissing off your carries. The carries will appreciate you successfully supporting in all feasible ways while still being a bad ***.

Congratulation on the down vote, what is this a popularity contest? Frankly, I feel as if you got your feelings hurt and you retaliated with the big bad "down vote". Now, I would naturally not want to believe this as no one could be that sensitive of being told that their own play style isn't what everyone believes. But, that's where I came across your guide where you had indicated a particular guide. Quite ironic if you ask me.

Despite your feelings, I have incorporated mass amounts of information that pertain to every Dota player, new & experienced. Again if you don't like the guide go somewhere else you troll.
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Wisdomseyes1 (8) | October 2, 2013 5:37pm
I have never downvoted a guide before...


If you wanted to just say "this is how you play Carry CM" that would have been fine, but your guide is saying to take farm from "bad players" and that is why you have earned the privilege of being my first vote at all on this website.

"I didn't read anything you wrote" doesn't bode well for your point that Crystal Maiden is a semi-carry.

Tip when writing a guide: Assume every player is of equal skill, or assume that everyone on the enemy team is just straight up better than you as a player.
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MetalMario77 | October 2, 2013 4:53pm
Wisdomseyes1 wrote:



This is what we call a "strawman argument", in which you argue that I said something I did not in order to invalidate my points.

You said, "Now, yes, generally you'd like your actually carries to get a farm. But, all too often you have teammates that play hero's they don't know how to play or they are just bad."

I said, in response to this, "Taking farm and "carrying" because your carry is doing badly is a very very very bad idea.

Taking farm and "carrying" because your carry is incompetent is usually a bad idea, but only because you don't know if they are incompetent or not until basically the end of the game."

Now, to repeat myself.

Getting kills as a Crystal Maiden is fine. Most of the time it doesn't matter who gets the kill so long as the gold is going for the good of the team. Getting kills and buying a Dagon, for example, is a bad use of a supports time (because they could be warding with the 300 gold you get from kills. Actively stealing kills isn't okay, but then you understand that wasn't what I said right?

You said that it was okay to get farm, which albeit is just fine and dandy if there is no other hero on the higher end of the farm priority bracket than you also in lane and your team doesn't need you for anything (you need wards in places asap because there is an enemy Pudge or because there is a fight going on and your disables and nukes would be helpful) However, this is not the case if there is any other hero (on a number 5) in lane with you, or a carrying hero on lane with you.

You said that it was okay to take farm and act like a carry if your carry is incompetent. I said this was not the case, and this is not the case because when you play with a Spectre and Spectre doesn't get farm because she is feeding, it is counterproductive to take ANY farm from Spectre when Spectre finally has some breathing room. A hero who needs 10,000+ gold to function is useless if the enemy AND the tea fight for farm because the team has decided that she isn't good enough. It is not productive.


A BAD player who gets farm eventually can carry the team. A good player playing support can't carry the team past 30 minutes, you said this in your guide. So what makes you think that playing carry for this time is a good idea and not just letting the carry get back into the game?

Sure you can feel good because you can tell yourself you are the reason you won and that people will complement you on how awesome you are because you farmed, but it is not the best way to win.



There are games where people do nothing but die, and yea if you don't know them you could say they are bad (when a lot of the time they just had a bad lane) but just deciding they don't know what they are doing and taking from them is not okay


Don't link me 1 game you played you did well and tell me that is proof. It is so stupid to me when people do that. "Ohh look I went 57-1-22 on Blaanar, I am a really good player and my guide is awesome!"

I do like how you claim that I must not be reading everything you say or that I missed something you said, trying to further invalidate me though. I see everything you say, and i respond to next to all of it.

PS: Jason is awesome


I'm done responding to your arguments; frankly, I could hardly read what you typed for the simple fact that your not providing any information that is helpful. You do not like this style and your letting your beliefs lead your argument. If you don't like the guide, again, make your own.

You can look at any game I have played with CM & see how I continuously play her well (doing what is required for my team to win), hence the 60% Win rate. It was one game I provided that showed you how I conducted my styled of play, which validated all of my points.

From this point on, your comments will be ignored as it seems as if your more concerned with winning a point than you are with becoming a better player.
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Wisdomseyes1 (8) | October 2, 2013 3:24pm
Quoted:
2-10-35, But please tell me again how I didn't do my part, and how I "Ks'd" all game and took the farm away from my carries.


This is what we call a "strawman argument", in which you argue that I said something I did not in order to invalidate my points.

You said, "Now, yes, generally you'd like your actually carries to get a farm. But, all too often you have teammates that play hero's they don't know how to play or they are just bad."

I said, in response to this, "Taking farm and "carrying" because your carry is doing badly is a very very very bad idea.

Taking farm and "carrying" because your carry is incompetent is usually a bad idea, but only because you don't know if they are incompetent or not until basically the end of the game."

Now, to repeat myself.

Getting kills as a Crystal Maiden is fine. Most of the time it doesn't matter who gets the kill so long as the gold is going for the good of the team. Getting kills and buying a Dagon, for example, is a bad use of a supports time (because they could be warding with the 300 gold you get from kills. Actively stealing kills isn't okay, but then you understand that wasn't what I said right?

You said that it was okay to get farm, which albeit is just fine and dandy if there is no other hero on the higher end of the farm priority bracket than you also in lane and your team doesn't need you for anything (you need wards in places asap because there is an enemy Pudge or because there is a fight going on and your disables and nukes would be helpful) However, this is not the case if there is any other hero (on a number 5) in lane with you, or a carrying hero on lane with you.

You said that it was okay to take farm and act like a carry if your carry is incompetent. I said this was not the case, and this is not the case because when you play with a Spectre and Spectre doesn't get farm because she is feeding, it is counterproductive to take ANY farm from Spectre when Spectre finally has some breathing room. A hero who needs 10,000+ gold to function is useless if the enemy AND the tea fight for farm because the team has decided that she isn't good enough. It is not productive.


A BAD player who gets farm eventually can carry the team. A good player playing support can't carry the team past 30 minutes, you said this in your guide. So what makes you think that playing carry for this time is a good idea and not just letting the carry get back into the game?

Sure you can feel good because you can tell yourself you are the reason you won and that people will complement you on how awesome you are because you farmed, but it is not the best way to win.



There are games where people do nothing but die, and yea if you don't know them you could say they are bad (when a lot of the time they just had a bad lane) but just deciding they don't know what they are doing and taking from them is not okay


Don't link me 1 game you played you did well and tell me that is proof. It is so stupid to me when people do that. "Ohh look I went 57-1-22 on Blaanar, I am a really good player and my guide is awesome!"

I do like how you claim that I must not be reading everything you say or that I missed something you said, trying to further invalidate me though. I see everything you say, and i respond to next to all of it.

PS: Jason is awesome
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