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Jumping to player games

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Forum » New Player Help » Jumping to player games 11 posts - page 1 of 2
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Jazzumness » June 5, 2013 1:12pm | Report
So I have tried a lot of heroes for a bit and I cant seem to stand any of them besides sniper, he has low base damage but I like him for his ability to easily last hit and harass. I have played at 9 or so player games and i keep feeding mostly to people like invoker or beastmaster. i can beat medium bots and people say bots are better than people so I dont know the problem. I keep my distance and I try to have my teammate babysit me or if im in mid i hug the tower but its like being squishy is all that matters to the enemy any ideas?

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Hades4u » June 5, 2013 1:21pm | Report
Jazzumness wrote:

So I have tried a lot of heroes for a bit and I cant seem to stand any of them besides sniper, he has low base damage but I like him for his ability to easily last hit and harass. I have played at 9 or so player games and i keep feeding mostly to people like invoker or beastmaster. i can beat medium bots and people say bots are better than people so I dont know the problem. I keep my distance and I try to have my teammate babysit me or if im in mid i hug the tower but its like being squishy is all that matters to the enemy any ideas?

Sniper might seem easy, but he's not at all. He has no escape mechanism, a simple stun makes him very vulnerable and he requires a lot of farm to be effective.

I suggest you to try a beefier hero that has disables and nukes?
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Ancient Hero » June 5, 2013 1:33pm | Report
skeleton king and Dragon Knight are pretty easy heros to learn.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by ScurvyCur » June 5, 2013 2:27pm | Report
A couple points of note:

When up against new players, I would say that hard bots are going to be better coordinated, and better at last hitting and denying than a real player. This does not mean that they're better at strategy and focusing targets though.

This is especially important when considering characters like sniper. Early on, Sniper's only survival mechanism is positioning. He is slow, squishy, and has no escape mechanism. This makes him an easy pick off for any aggressive character with some burst damage, a stun, or both. He usually gets away with this against bots, though, because they don't rotate or gank anywhere near as much as real players, and won't switch focus to sniper when he presents himself as a target. This is compounded with the fact that, individually, a lot of bots se to have commitment issues when they start taking ranged damage, which often means that a bot will dither and take harrass fire from Sniper where a real player would either back down or decide to trade hits with Sniper.

Because of these issues, Sniper will dominate bot matches with ease one game, and then spend all of a pub match feeding Nightstalker the next. Sniper can be played effectively, especially against players that are too timid to gank him, or with a team that's actively protecting him, but pub teams will likely not guard or him very well, and it only takes one opponent who realizes Sniper is a snack to make your game miserable.

The heroes you mentioned feeding to are both heroes who have some potent early game tools at their disposal, and those heroes will always be hard for Sniper to handle.

Based on what you said you like about Sniper, I would suggest trying a hero like Kunkka for the harrass potential. You might also try Juggernaut, who despite low base damage, has a fairly efficient attack animation, which is helpful in last hitting. Juggs also has a built in magic immunity which can save him from ganks. Viper might also be a good choice, since Nethertoxin aids greatly in last hitting, and he has a cheap Q (forget the name off the top of my head) that is great for harrass. He also has a great animation for last hitting.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by samukobo » June 6, 2013 2:57am | Report
Bots are not better than people. Dominating insane bots is easy, but that doesn't mean you can just pubstomp because
1. Bots make bad descisions. Macropyre on creeps, stands right there while a teamfight happens, etc
2. No situational items

Anyway, you should listen to the guys' suggestions (except kunkka, how dare you recommend kunkka to a beginner) and find another hero that suits you.

And you should try most of the heroes, because maybe you just tried hard heroes AND sniper.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Yosiu » July 14, 2013 5:02pm | Report
Dont play with hard bots, they are cheating as hell, they can avoid many skills becouse they have maphack.
Play some games with medium bots, then you can practice in coop game vs hard bots (don't play bot only game with hard bots - it's much too frustrating).
But i started playing player games since first day without any bot game practice and it wasn't that bad :D
Especially if you read guides on dotafire. You will have huge knowledge advantage over most beggining players.
You can practice some easy heroes on bots, but i strongly not recommend playing skillshot based heroes like pudge or mirana - they will almost always dodge your skill (btw i'm not raging, its' confirmed on dev dota forum)

@samukobo yeah, jakiro bot is terrible, he misses most of his skills if you try even most lamest jukes.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by xhiei » July 15, 2013 3:31am | Report
Yosiu wrote:

Dont play with hard bots, they are cheating as hell, they can avoid many skills becouse they have maphack.



Ahh.. that explains the hard mode bots.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Hades4u » July 15, 2013 3:47am | Report
xhiei wrote:



Ahh.. that explains the hard mode bots.

It's not maphack, they have artificial intelligence, they calculate EXACTLY where the spell will go, how much damage it will deal, how much remaining HP he will have, etc.

It's a very complex thing, it takes everything in consideration.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by samukobo » July 15, 2013 4:23am | Report
Hades4u wrote:

It's a very complex thing, it takes everything in consideration.


That is of course, everything except you dying in a situation that would take a turn if they came, them sitting at 100 HP and the fact that you should push because you just got a teamwipe and you have less kills than the enemy (Roshan is more important, right?)

But yeah, you shouldn't play with bots in general as they are either too stupid to actually do something simple properly or are good yet absolutely awful teammates.

Bots are good to getting a feel of the game itself, but that's it. They don't prepare you for "real" games.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Visualz- » August 1, 2013 8:55pm | Report
I'd say learn/try new characters/roles, avoid carry role, maybe it also has to do with your build, so, try some guides. Bots are programmed to understand the basics of the game(last hitting, denying, damage and disable calculations, etc.) While actual players have strategy at their disposal.

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