Dota Psychology: The Mindset of a Jungler

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Forum » General Discussion » Dota Psychology: The Mindset of a Jungler 16 posts - page 1 of 2
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Fedorable » January 23, 2016 11:00am | Report
Legion Commander and Lifestealer are two heroes that the wiki describes as both "carries" and "junglers." But in my games that I've played with either a jungling LC or LS, I only know of one that I've won (http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2097699645) and it was because I was playing the Radioactive Disco Pony-Goat of Balance. All the other times, these "junglers" afk farm to the point where I just have to buy wards and block all of our jungle camps just so they no choice but fight with us. Otherwise, we're 4v5ing for 45 minutes, only to have our 6-slotted Lifestealer get outcarried.

Here's what I'm trying to understand: WHY DO THEY CONTINUE TO TRY JUNGLING WITH THESE HEROES? How many times has it NOT worked out for them? If it didn't work the past 15 or so times, why would now be any different? Do none of them realize that Legion Commander is REALLY good at winning her lane and snowball with just a blademail? And that Lifestealer... uh... he uh... Okay I got no clue as to why anyone picks Lifestealer other than to counter Pudge but the point is that these players don't seem to get the fact that by jungling with these right click heroes, they hurt their chances of winning. Oh, and it's not just these two, yeah, I've seen jungling Furions, Lone Druid, bugatti-seekers, and so on.

So, let's talk about the mindset of an AFK jungler and how we can boost their gameplay to the point where we can have a chance at winning.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Dimonychan » January 23, 2016 11:06am | Report
Junglers are either players who were denied a core role and they don't want to support or just lowskill players who pick jungle because it's easy to farm there and they tend not to feed because they AFK farm all game, so they can freely blame their team for feeding.

There are also players who believe jungling with a core with Iron Talon is a good strategy and a path to victory, but they are probably even more ******ed than the first two... species.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Cuttleboss » January 23, 2016 1:01pm | Report
A Lifestealer than jungles a vlads, jumps into an ancient at minute 8, running around with 380 movespeed (tranquils don't get disabled when you're inside of an ancient), if he actually deathballs, he is actually pretty dangerous since a lot of teams can't fight an ancient.

However, I'm pretty sick of Lifestealers who try to go into late game, Like..
"bruh, we need you to hit the heroes at 20 minutes, stop hitting the creeps sir."
(Game gets to 60 minutes)
"okay, turns out you couldn't outcarry the CK, especially since our Luna had to split farm with you."

As for the jungle, its fine as long as they don't steal it for the whole game from my Sven or Terrorblade who needs it way more. If they're done with jungle after 10 minutes, then I'm actually pretty apathetic towards junglers, sure they make my supporting more difficult, but at least they're moderately tanky most of the time (LC, LS, Axe), so I kind of let them lead and counterinitiate/followup when the action starts.

And I'm actually a lot more annoyed with jungle prophets than LCs, gonna rush midas, steal a ton of farm, refuse to do any teamfights, and then get picked off and feed a ton of gold due to high net worth, and for some reasons, Prophets sure love to blame their teams.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Dimonychan » January 23, 2016 1:13pm | Report
Funny enough, jungle NPs are, on contrary, the only junglers I tolerate(also Chen, but he's rare). These guys often do a ton of work early and help a lot in ganks, often we win games together after a successful pickoff. I haven't seen an AFK farming NPin a long time, usually they are decent enough to help their team win early game even if they go for some ******ed build like Midas-SB which is outdated.

Jungle LCs can also be great, but that's more of an exception than a rule, so the deserved hate applies.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by ThePipersSon » January 23, 2016 2:59pm | Report
I tend to play by the idea (that someone said on this site once upon a time) that the only heros that are better in the jungle then they are in lane r Chen and Enchantress and maybe Enigma . Otherwise the only way to jungle is like how it works in LOL. E. G. Jungle for like 5 mins then gank lots and help the team in some way.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Sanvitch » January 23, 2016 3:13pm | Report
ThePipersSon wrote:

I tend to play by the idea (that someone said on this site once upon a time) that the only heros that are better in the jungle then they are in lane r Chen and Enchantress and maybe Enigma . Otherwise the only way to jungle is like how it works in LOL. E. G. Jungle for like 5 mins then gank lots and help the team in some way.


I mean those heroes do that anyway, they are just more efficient at either the jungling or the ganking. Like Chen and Enchantress are good solo gankers from level 3 onwards (Or even earlier), whilst Enigma is just the most efficient jungler in the game. (I thinks it's like 5 and a half minute level 6 either side of the map. Or used to be, no idea about the new radiant jungle).

Also Iron Talon jungling isn't that in-efficient tbh, it's just generally you can't afford to weaken your lanes so much. Like 4 position Lifestealer can get like a 6 minute level 6 and then pop into an Ancient Black Dragon and just crush towers with Fireball.

The one I hate the most is the 4 position afk farming Treant Protector... Just urrrgh, why are you wasting a hero with such strong rotating potential by afk'ing with an Iron Talon.

Since you just can't have enough Chaos Breaker.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Blubbles » January 24, 2016 12:17am | Report
Dimonychan wrote:

Funny enough, jungle NPs are, on contrary, the only junglers I tolerate(also Chen, but he's rare). These guys often do a ton of work early and help a lot in ganks, often we win games together after a successful pickoff. I haven't seen an AFK farming NPin a long time, usually they are decent enough to help their team win early game even if they go for some ******ed build like Midas-SB which is outdated.

Jungle LCs can also be great, but that's more of an exception than a rule, so the deserved hate applies.


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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Sando » January 24, 2016 7:46am | Report
Easy answer: I must play a hero that farms, so if all the lanes are "full" I must therefore run an AFK jungler, as the idea of playing a non-farm dependent hero is offensive to me.

I also think there's a whole lot of people who play this way because they can blame their team if they lose. (i.e. you lost the game while I was in the jungle, therefore it's not my fault).

It's kind of sad really, you still see it a lot, even though there are plenty of aggro dual lanes that can totally destroy the opposition.

I have a lot less of a problem with it if they gank occasionally early on, or at least pay enough attention to not get destroyed by roamers...unfortunately both are uncommon.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by KEEP CALM AND FEED » January 24, 2016 5:59pm | Report
The OP said "boost their gameplay"
I sure hope this ain't a Chilongqua thread.


Otherwise what I believe, when I used to play jungleblade , jungling mostly allows you to escape the pressure of landing with a safe way to get gold and get yasha aquila boots and some wraith bands by 10 minutes. Then you come out and gank with you mid and turn a gank to tower eating fest.

What it means for your team differs from draft to draft. Is there a hero that can solo?
Can that hero benefit from solo exp and maybe contest some farm from the lane? Then it is the best case scenario. Otherwise you are running the risk of early game disadvantage that will translate to higher net worth difference on the other direction you thought it would be.

Edit: the thread is named dota psychology. Mr Chilongqua, you just got rekt

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Terathiel » January 24, 2016 6:32pm | Report
The point of Jungleblade is to essentially give your #4 guaranteed and easy farm. Since you're the #1, and you jungle as fast as you can farm in the lane anyway (thanks Iron Talon), there's really not a lot of reason NOT to jungle once you get level 3, Iron Talon and maybe Aquila. I mean, you're AFK farming or split pushing for a while anyway, may as well give something to your supports. The fact that he's a #1 that can jungle really early on is one of the selling points of the Hero as it gives one of your supports #3 farm while still keeping their position.
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