Position 5 Guide?

I am currently learning to play position 5 well (hard support), and I can manage to do basically all of the basics, but can someone help me in making a guide of how to play position 5 hard support in an advanced way for competitive scene? I consider position 5 to be one of the hardest position in the game, so can someone help me out? I don't want to have shallow understanding of how to play this thing so a very in-depth guide can help (e.g: not just where to put wards, but how to and when probably; how to properly zone out to the precise detail; when to creep pull and double pull; etc.)

Im too lazy to make a guide, but depending on where you play, I could coach you. I myself play a lot of 5 position for my friends and I know what to do, but sometimes in the heat of a game, I don't do it. But if you can manage to 5 stack, and get a tri-lane going, I would love to help you.

thx for the reply :D
I play in SEA server, would be great if you could!

AAAGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!! SEA!!!!!!!!!!!! NOO!!!!!! my **** for internet would die before i could connect to SEA!

Well.. Too bad then :(
Appreciate the kind gesture though, thank you!

I play in SEA, could coach you in a couple of days, m out of town, ****le doesnt provide good enough connectivity.

Sando made a guide to Hard Support a while back, so you might want to read that to get an idea of what you'll need to cover.

http://www.dotafire.com/dota-2/guide/hard-support-making-the-5-role-work-7062

Don't be discouraged, it's only a Sando guide. Judging by the quality of your Bounty Hunter Guide, you can make a Guide that is just as good (...or much, much better 8{3 ).


I'm by no means the best Hard Support, but I know love and know how to do it. <}3

Although I'd say Offlane Solo is the hardest position.
Where you suspect the enemy Team will be moving through, usually to spot Ganks or to see which Runes are available in order to try and control them. Do this before you need the vision there, you have to anticipate the most problematic movements your enemy can make and be ready to turn to around when they try it.

You can also use wards to catch out Junglers, or better yet, block Neutral Camps to minimize their Farm. At the start of the game, you'll have 2 Observer Wards and 2 Sentry Wards, so will the other Team (assuming everyone's playing with a full deck). There are 3 things you need to be concerned about:-

• Getting Vision on the 2 most important areas without getting Dewarded
• Dewarding your opponents, so they have no vision by discerning where your opponents are focusing their attention
• Ensuring you have sufficient control over Neutral Camps

Considering that your 1st set of Observer Wards are supposed to last until 5:30-6:00ish, you want to place them bearing that in mind, i.e. There might be a 5-man Rosh attempt before 0:00, but it's very unlikely for even an Ursa to go into the Rosh Pit this early on, so Warding Roshan is not a priority in 99% of games.

First of all, you need to make sure that your Position 1 is safe, this largely depends on the Lane you and the other Team are going to be running, but unless you can reasonably assume that they will be 1 vs 1, are able to Farm for the 1st 4 minutes and aren't going to get Ganked, you can ignore Warding for them (although this only really happens when they're Solo Safe Lane while you're running an Aggressive Tri-Lane).

Example:- You've got a lot of Pushing Power in your Tri-Lane, so you're going to try to Push the Tower early on, you want to make sure that you see Pudge before he comes to Gank, and you're also concerned that the other team's Supports will TP in to Defend.

Place 1 Observer Ward at the edge of your Jungle, near the other Team's Tower so you can spot anyone TPing in, then place another Ward inside your Jungle, giving you vision of the blind spot where Pudge will try to Hook from

Next you want Rune Control, but ask yourself "do you really need Wards for that?" Contrary to what most people believe, it's not the Mid player's job to control Runes, but it's up to the Offlaner and Supports to control them. Yes, it's nice if they can refill their Bottle, but just because they have Vision of the Rune, doesn't mean it's safe for them to just wander over to it. It's much safer to have a Support scout out the Runes, especially if there's a Hero on the other Team (a Mid or Offlaner) who's good at snatching Runes before your Mid has a chance to.

The other way to look at this is, if the other Team's Mid has Wards on both Runes, and can get to them faster (e.g. [Queen of Pain]], Puck, etc. your Mid will most likely have no control over the Runes, but if there's a Support/Offlaner waiting at a Spawn Point, the Support can grab it before the Mid Player can start moving towards it (just be careful not to get Ganked when doing this).

etc. etc. etc. (too lazy now)

Same -_-

Ah, thanks Xyrus! Great help over there! :D
Thanks about your flattery for my guides, although I kept on getting downvotes from time to time without any comment -_-

Abaddon, thanks for the offer, and if you do want to, please at my steam :)

I wasn't flattering your guide, I was insulting Sando's guides 8{3

Everyone gets that except me 8{3

1 downvote, but at least I got a comment on it 8{3

Oh! Apparently you take it wrongly when I said "in making a guide", sorry! I meant to say "by making a guide" I only want to learn position 5, not writing it loo

And the flattery was meant for the Bounty Hunter part