Dendi pudge, tiny and TECHIES.

I didn't watch the game so can't comment on how it went - maybe they were trolling/entertaining - or maybe they wanted to give it a try and see how it worked.

The solution isn't about position changing around mines, it's simply the concept of insta-death in the first place. If fountain-hooking (a much more demanding skill) is deemed "a bug" or "cheat", why legitimise a much simpler version of the same thing on another hero?

They were screwing around for sure, trust me. It was purely to entertain.

About the difference. Its not even close man, you are kinda being blinded by techies hate :P

For one the fountain hook was a glitch. I dont blame navi at all for using all tools at their disposal. It was in the game, they saw an opportunity when they were far behind and took it. And its not like they intended to do so from the start. They picked chen and pudge because their players are good at the heroes.


Secondly the fountain is an infinate source of damage that is meant to keep enemies out of your spawn area.
Mines are multiple sources that all do a set amount of damage. So if you place enough they SHOULD 'oneshot' you.
Its not like its a strong tactic is something. Dendi's play was severly limited because he stoof waiting on mines a lot of the time.

The fountain hook wasnt a glitch. Its an old mechanic from dota 1.

I'll trust your judgement on whether they were even vaguely serious or not. I'm not denying the techies hate, it burns strong within me, however I do fail to see a difference between these mechanics.

The major issue I have with Techies is that they have this ability to stack up extremely high levels of either magic or physical damage on particular spots - basically 3 of their skills are designed around the idea that you can "one-shot" an opponent and kill them instantly. No other hero has the ability to do this. Yes, they are balanced out by all their huge negatives, but this is basically a fudge.

I'm all for unusual, asymmetric designs to make things interesting, but for me, this goes too far. All other damage in dota is balanced by the need to get farm/levels, and especially with burst, that you can simply get above the threshold where you can be killed instantly relatively easily, or the hero is extremely reliant on both farm and RNG. The maximum damage threshold for techies is insanely high, even early in the game.

Fountain hooking was a long known and recognised thing that only became an issue when used in high level play during a major event - it was deliberately programmed into DOTA 2 as part of the port from DOTA 1. For whatever reason, it was subsequently removed even though it's a very difficult skill, as it was deemed "unacceptable" to be able to "insta-kill" someone in this manner, even though it relied on perfect timing and landing a skillshot, AND having one of your heroes teleported all the way across the map.

False, it wasnt like that in dota 1, they were both either mechanical liminations and glitches.

In Dota 1 the target of a hook will get hooked to the position of Pudge at the moment the hook was casted.

In Dota 2 the position that matters is the one of a pudge at the moment the hook hits the target.

And yes, techies is a weird unique hero. Yes he can stack up mines and theoreticly oneshot anything. So?
Naga can kill 3 creepwaves just as they come out of base without being near, treant can pretty much clear both jungles and all creepwaves every 60 seconds. Lina can oneshot most int supports from 900 range with aghs.
We have a purple hero who can do 27000 damage with 1 spell. (no i didnt add an extra zero, 27000 is correct)
We have another green fella who can much more easily to do up to 9180.

And you are worried about a hero who needs 10 seconds per mine, who stay in the same place all the time?

Honetly i am more scared and annoyed by a good pudge, and even more annoyed by AA and earthshaker.


Remember sando:

Sorry for the admittedly off-topic post, but this got me curious.

Is it Enigma and Venomancer? I'm just curious, especially for the 27k one.

The 27000 one is witch doctor with death ward.
The second one is veno yea.

And i could have included enigma too yes, if he pre casts a midnight pulse on top of aghanim blackhole, or has refresh aghanim, he just outrights kills everyone in it because its percentage based.

Enigma can kill anything with midnight and double black hole with aghs. Scalling is infinite.

Thanks for having the conversation Tim, I know I bang on about this a lot :)

The hook thing - it must have been a deliberate decision to implement in Dota 2 originally - Chens spell only TP's one hero.

Y'see - for me, all the examples you've given are highly situational - they require a lot of farm, levels etc on the heroes you talk about. There are counters you can employ to stop these things from happening, you can stop those heroes getting the farm they need to do these things, and you have a reaction time to do something about them.

If naga gets big enough to do that - you failed. If Treant gets big enough to do that - you failed...and you can deward his trees. If Void lands a good enough 5 man Chrono and WD gets to follow up with all that farm - they earned it.

Techies - you can't afford to sentry everything, especially early game. You can't sentry every step between you going from lane to place a ward. You have to buy a gem - which is fine - but then carry the risk of losing it, and it's hella expensive early on to make this risky investment.

This leaves you in the realm of trying to guess where is and isn't safe to walk, unless you have one of a selection of spells on specific heroes that allow you to mine clear safely. If you have most melee heroes, you can't even destroy the mines safely unless you have specific abilities that make you immune to their damage.

I'm not saying the hero is OP...it isn't. Their game impact is generally very limited. I really dislike the fundamental implementation of his skills. The biggest problem for me is partly psychological - whenever I see them get picked, on either team - my desire to play is nerfed. I know it's not going to be much fun...the game is going to drag either because techies don't push/teamfight well, or you have to push into mines.

To be a bit more positive, I'm going to publish a proposed rework of them - the idea of a hero with strong map control limiting power via planted mines is actually interesting. The big issue I have is with insta-death as a mechanic when it's present right from the start of the game and isn't reliant on farm/levels to "earn it".

With the wards though, can trchies be used to counter greedy lineups?